"The rewards in the raid dungeon start at item level 251 in the normal mode with 10-player encounters, increase to item level 264 in the Heroic mode mode with 10 players and the normal mode with 25-player encounters, and then finally reach item level 277 in the Heroic mode with 25 players."

Itt: replace our 25 man gear with 10 man gear
Itt: replace our 25m heroic gear with 10m heroic gear

no good way to balance progression with and different raid sizes

correct

didnt need the "and" but thats what happens when im in the middle of a thought, get interrupted at work, and think i know exactly where i was in thought without rereading what i was typing

blizzard is on drugs

The current plan is to make Emblems of Triumph the "base" of emblems so everything that drops Emblems of Conquest would be changed to Triumph and then the new raid content would drop the new highest emblem along with things like the heroic daily and such.

what is even the point of doing toc anymore just to have the toc gear replaced by shit that is above and beyond better soon.

if you are a casual, nothing
if you want to be able to do icc hms you will want toc hm gear i would assume

WHAT IS EVEN THE POINT OF RAIDING

theres not even any goal anymore
its constant and nonstop raiding to get as many upgrades as you can before all your shit becomes obsolete
theres not even any point to best in slot items anymore

this is what i mean
at least like in BC there was stuff that was BIS for a while

I liked the fact that different raids dropped BiS loot in BC.

I don't think that I like the fact that Sunwell was the make or break of raiding though, most players were never going to see the final boss, ever. I do like the fact that casuals will be able to down Arthas, but hardcore raiders will be the only ones able to obtain special achievements (a real reason why this system is in place, accessibility for everyone, pride for a few).

it's a great system
I just dont like the fact that by the time i get full 245 gear, icc will already be out
I take that long to get all the gear, I want to use it and not replace it right away

I'm already @ 4 piece 245 tanking, 4 piece 232 DPS, and by the time Icecrown rolls around (3 months easily), I will have all of the token gear I could ever want...

You're not going to get BIS gear, but John is the only one who is.

@ John - Sent a PM to our recruiting officers letting him know whats up, Imalinata was wanting me to come to Beasts ton8 I think.

tl;dr - c u soon

the jump in ilvl is just too much

i would be OK with there being 1 healing trinket and 1 caster dps trinket in ToC, since theres only 5 bosses, and it would make sense that the trinkets are BIS, but when those trinkets are ILVL 245 and 258 (heroic version) when the previous BIS trinkets were ilvl 226, its absolutely retarded

assuming you get 6 months between content patches, it takes you 2 months to get everything on farm status to start farming for loot, thats 16 weeks for that that trinket to be equipped on as many healers/dps as you can get it on

its perfectly within reason that you go 10 weeks without seeing a said trinket at all, maybe you get 3 total in those 4 months of farming, you have 4 people geared with 245/258 trinket, everyone else using their 226, while we are going into Ilvl 277 content

not even to consider factors such as people getting a piece of loot then leaving the guild/game/etc

its a retarded system, your guild progress at high levels shouldnt be based on your luck in seeing the single items that are BY FAR best in slot upgrades over the next-best

DBB (x4)

GO

in illustration of the above, we will probably see 3-4 dual blade butchers (non heroic and heroic combined) drop before icecrown goes live (we have currently seen zero)

we have 5ish melee classes who need them, 2 of which are fury warriors who "need" two

assuming none of the people gquit in between getting one and starting icecrown (lol, not like we have gone through 3 ret paladins in 3 months), we are going to have half our melee with the right weapons for HM ICC proggression, while the other half is using worldcarvers and shit

we have currently seen 2 of the caster dps trinkets, 2 of the melee dps trinkets, 0 of the healer trinkets

probably 50% of our physical dps will be going into ICC with darkmoon greatness decks still

50%+ of our healers and caster dps will still be using 226 trinkets

by the time our whole raid is in full 245 gear, icecrown will be out

even the best guilds in the world who are getting 4x 258 ilvl tier pieces per week still arent going to be anywhere near full 258 by the time icecrown is out, and NORMAL 25 MAN AND HARD MODE 10 MAN loot will be BETTER than it anyway

according to wowprogress, less than 4% of raiding guilds have killed 1 light yogg saron, less than 3% have killed algalon

the gear from both of them is ABSOLUTELY OBSOLETE in current content (1 patch later)

amount of guild who will kill anub arak 25 hard mode before icc is out? probably less than 2%

his loot and the 258 tier pieces coming from the tribute chest? OBSOLETE, 10 MAN NORMAL SHIT IS ALMOST AS GOOD

Jesus

I still think it's farther away than we originally think.

i think it will be 3 months

still, everything i have said in this thread is valid

the scaling is more dramatic the higher it gets. by a percentage i bet its similar to sunwell or previous times. we are not supposed to all be in bis by ic, but maybe by the end of ic will we all be in bis (doubtful). as for itemization, bobdave is wrong. i use pieces for months because i cant just take every upgrade. shit dont work that way (at least for melee )

http://www.wowhead.com/?itemset=675

tier 6 priest gear
item level 146-154

black temple/hyjal were around and kept peoples attention (not boring dull shit like naxx) for about as long as ulduar and toc combined

loot you replaced your tier 6 with from Kil'Jaden (example)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34339
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34336
item level 164

154-> 164 7%+/- upgrade. 229-> 245 7%. maybe thats a bit bigger of a jump, but its due to the scaling issues. have to make sure ulduar gear is not good enough for icc, but still provide a raid for everyone. and since next o no one downed swp they dont want to make that mistake again imo. yea, its fucked, but its better than no one raiding endgame.

i dont agree with making the new raids mind numbingly easy as well as handing out free gear

one or the other priz

girugamesh is one of the worst pve servers, and a raid of pug ALTS (mains do guild runs), got anub 25 man to 2% and 5% spending only 4 pulls on him

people are still going to experience brain dead content whether or not you give them gear for it automatically or nto

its called PROGRESSION

icc better have checks like crazy because toc is free loot

patchwerk 2.0

im actually confident that they fucked the entire expansion by having naxx be the hardcore endgame for half a year
if every single person raider wasnt stacked with 226 gear when ulduar came out, it may have been different

i was actually very pleased by the degree patchwerk was tuned to in wrath

but get real, guilds like <havok> will kill the lich king on the first week

OMG THIS PATCH DAY MAITENANCE SUCKS SO MUCH, WE GOT ARTHAS TO 40% THAT LAST PULL

quoting for emphasis

they could have fixed the naxx problem by tuning ulduar better

but then that was worsened with toc

toc is garbage

absolute garbage

iso a server wide event for icc priz
btw, i think ulduar is an amazing place, very well done and its a shame people are tired of it cuz its fun
sadly all of wrath has 2 proper raids, everything else is a room with bosses

This post has been edited by blind_chief on Thu - Oct 8 2009 - 10:16:08

so instead of just saying how shitty things are, how should wrath have balanced allowing everyone the chance to raid every encounter and still have things hard enough for the progressive guilds?




This post has been edited by blind_chief on Thu - Oct 8 2009 - 10:17:01

DULLduar

i disagree. ulduar is very well made, complex, and i actually really like their "clunky" mechanics to the hard modes. diversity etc.

:joefc: & I are in agreement.

Sitting on 30 Titansteel Bars, none sold @ 4/800

everyone shouldn't have the chance to raid every encounter

or if they should they need to make it more linearly based ie you need to do ulduar normal to do ulduar hms which are needed for toc which is needed for toc hms

you shouldn't be able to skip right to toc from heroics, which is what you can do now

conquest badges from heroics screwed it all up by giving gear above naxx gear level

heroics should have dropped valor badges if they needed to change it so badly

^^^ should not happen