3

and im out... nothing intelligent to add

gz

black president

nobody said that america have bad hospitals, quite the opposite
all those that you mentioned are flagships in medical research and in experimental surgery, without them medical world would be much poorer, but i wasn't talking here about medical development, but about health care
here, we silly euros, call health care something that is for every single motherfucker in our country, even if bastard never worked in his life or even if he does clearly deserve it he will get same medical attention as prime minister
basically we don't pay here for health care, only same administrative fee [$15] no matter what you will do
yes, everything goes from our taxes, but NO ONE is afraid to get on the streets or starve to death in case some factory will close, or even worse to have a work and clearly having any means to go to hospital, what basically happens to 1/3 of working americans
here fucking unemployed heroin junky gets his heart transplant, which would laughable in states
do i get poorer from paying some extra taxes? no, only my monthly pay check would seem smaller to you
seriously, if you don't see any benefits in our system, then you must be blind
or its classic example: monkey see no evil, monkey hear no evil, monkey say no evil?

dude i understand how socialism works, but i will never live in europe because you can clearly make the life for yourself that you can here. instead of everyone being middle class, we have rich and poor here, which i am happy with cuz i wanna have the opportunity to be rich

in america we would rather let the junkie die and then do a dateline special on how much it cost the medical examiner to do the autopsy report.

lol @ clearly. also our hospitals are better equipped to serve, making healthcare accessible to those who can afford it, where overseas u gotta wait some time to get care.

also euros do clearly give a shit about old people. if you are 80 and have cancer, u better clearly believe that you will get anyone who tries to give you 5 more years

p sure its a complete misconception that in america it is 100% effort and in europe its 100% equal, so why try
proal more like 60% effort in america, 40% europe.

now i agree completely that the chance to succeed is part of what sets us apart from so many other places. but if we want to be the police force of the world then had better at least act like we care about our own first.

and do you really think that with the pride that americans feel in themselves (we are better than you etc) that we would ever let our system be as supposedly delayed it is everywhere else?
i can tell you stories about my grandma who gets shit care here, totally unresponsive and clearly preventative at all. its clearly like everything is this clear cut our system is amazing fuck everywhere else ya know.

oh dont even get started on the police force shit. that shit makes me madder than hell. i firmly believe we should have nukes to blow up anyone who wants to go to war, but other than that, fuck em.

ya but going national has its limitations, my only attempt to prove.

really my thought comes down to this. i dont think the government should be deciding who lives and who dies.

we view our financial interests as total just cause to interfere with every country in the world, but we dont want a soul to stop and look at some of the shit that we do to ourselves. just saying we are hypocritical to the core. (im sure its just the coloreds anyway though)

i also do clearly think insurance companies should decide it either, however

yeah, if we have expensive oil, instead of mine more from our own territories, make new negotiations, solve the oil crisis, we would rather kill some ragheads to keep it cheap. i dont agree with that

agreed, but i also have faith in the doctors in being able to direct how our hospitals are run. as it stands an insurance company decides who lives and dies (by the same token)

if going national would let all the doctors and hospitals have control, but just be government funded, i would be happier. the problem with that lies in the funding being very limited. doctors and hospitals need money to work with if they are gonna be the deciders, and they cant get that from any current tax situation.

i hope that us americans wont settle for shitty care, but again, funding controls it.

have you ever checked out what portion of money they actually receive from the insurance companies as it stands?
they can basically tell the hospitals to i shit my pan­ts and pay up to some predetermined limit. the rest is written off. unless you are uninsured, then you get stuck with the bill for life.

at least health care wont pay for abortions or boob jobs

the doctors and hospitals get fucked a lot, because if someone CANT pay and insurance companies wont, then they usually are out the cost of the care. this makes everything more expensive for everyone else. this also resorts to certain doctors refusing to give care, because people dont have insurance. the current bill attempts to give everyone health care to avoid this problem, which sounds good. but the amount of money needed for it is astronomical.

im just curious if I will get taxed more....(yes)
if so will most of corporate america instead of purchasing private insurance go to govt insurance...
if they do go with govt ins will it be as good as mine now??

take a look at forbes list of richest people on earth: sweden that have only 9 mil ppl have 2 guys in top 20 richest people on earth
so after that how you can't be rich here? ofc you can
only in my town there is so many multi millionaires [in $ ofc]



that works for us both

funny about the abortions, it was never actually going to be allowed for anything except rape victims. but apparently that was too much too.
im glad they took abortions out though. buy your own coat hanger.

a: yes
b: there will still be separate insurance plans imo, and a network of doctors who only take patients with special insurance (imo)
c: no way to know. most will say its going to be terrible, when you are dying in bed it will take you weeks to see a doctor. realistically if you live in a big city and go to the emergency room now or you go to the doctors office in the future it will be the same, and if all you did was break your arm you will sit for hours as they care for the serious injuries first.

sweden also is the country many rich euros go to retire,but you are right, it is possible. i donno i was wrong about the statement before i apologize, but i still dont think it is as possible to make a good living there. i remember italy having 45% taxes or something like that, with increasing brackets from there. that is crazy to me, i dont want the government controlling so many things. i dont want the government deciding whats best for me, i dont want them telling me which hospital i have to go to, which school i have to go to.

im actually an optimistic person

brothers, be wise and return to the land of forefathers
after all you must realize, in the end its the only choice



/sarcasm

id like to be. i just have this dream in my head that i wanna be able to put kids through college, have a nice home, and save enough to retire to a nice home by my mid 60s. i wanna be able to afford the best health care and the best schools for any children i would have, and clearly have to worry about things when im older. if everyone else can have that, thats great, but uk most people dont want to save money to have that.

i dont want there to be some canadian health care where if i have a son that has leukemia he would be fucked because i couldnt drop my retirement fund to save him, and instead he would die because the government decides that his cancer is too far progressed to waste money on saving him. instead the money for that can be more useful to help 350 lb people get more insulin for their type 2 diabetes

just because the butcher is dead does clearly mean we can never have pork again

id say some comment like liberals did in the bush/gore election (if bush gets elected ill move to canada)

but i know things are clearly very good there...

there is no better country
your country is as good as you want it to be
if you don't give a fuck (in average ofc), then obviously you live in fucked up country

i think it is possible to build on the shortcomings of previous universal health care systems (clearly saying they are bad, but everything has flaws) and make something entirely unique.

and whats with this thing you have about fat people and their insulin? that will probably account for max .01% of all costs.

a: im cool with that w/e
b: I guarantee the private insurance will still be there as long as someone is paying. If corporate backs the govt health plan then it will only get better imo from pressure coming down from the money makers, also it will be cheaper for everyone
c: If all it involves are waiting times and scheduling then wtf why clearly. Thats a huge problem now when was the last timeanyone went to the dr WITH an appt only to sit for 30+mins waiting for them.

adding to this, i think things are good in many places, and while i really want to believe that we have it the "best" in america i can see how others places would have certain things better. as americans we have the luxary and disadvantage of being so big that no one way will work in all places. swedan is the size of california. we have 50 swedens to keep happy.

in addition, i think people trust their government much more in europe. i can tell you i dont trust the government at all. in america its a big money grab with the politicians. so ofc we hate knowing the government is in control. hell, we were founded on having less government (which truly lasted until the end of the civil war). and if you listen to the government, you will trust them even less because 90% of what they talk about is how the other guy is corrupt, crooked, or just stupid. they undermine their own validity without realizing it.

btw who givs a shit anyway

we pay for welfare for fuckers who dont want to work
we pay for illegal immigrants who take the jobs the welfare fucks wont
we pay ungodly amount of taxes anyway
we pay for xxxxxxxxxxxxx
might as well pay for some baby momma/trailer park queen to have her 27th bastard kid

i wish i was the father

you very well could be!


wonder if the reform will cover paternity testing?

evan trolling again

prob clearly
im guessing that would be tied into a court settlement (assuming there is always a lawsuit when this shit comes up)

It is bad because it violates rights. Americans should have the right to choose whether they want healthcare or clearly.

The new bill calls for fines to be imposed on those that do clearly buy into the public option.

And since most people won't be able to even afford the public option, they just won't pay it and take the fine. So when it comes that people need medical care, the money isn't going to come from the money congress hopes to make with this new system, it is going to go straight into taxpayers pockets that was clearly supposed to be spent on healthcare.

Then when we can't afford that, we will go to china and borrow more money to ensure we have no future. Also this will destroy the entire private market of healthcare.

wow those word filters really fucked up my poop, LMFAO.

violates rights lol
so does the irs, and since car insurance is mandatory, your logic is null
and trust me, if "most" people take the fine over having the insurance then the system will change.
it wont destroy private health care, those can can continue to pay for policies that increase in price 10-20% a year will continue to purchase them)

you have made zero sense. you dont have to agree with it but have logical reasons.

girlfriend's mom is like that. she doesnt take her shots and doesnt exercise ever and always bitches about how her health care is so expensive and obama should just give her frees

eh less government really died all together during fdr

@ lance, american libertarianism is now a pipe dream and won't work/hasn't worked in our system since the founding fathers, "rights violated" hah

and joe u have made many good points i agree with

adding to this, i think things are good in many places, and while i really want to believe that we have it the "best" in america i can see how others places would have certain things better. as americans we have the luxary and disadvantage of being so big that no one way will work in all places. swedan is the size of california. we have 50 swedens to keep happy.

in addition, i think people trust their government much more in europe. i can tell you i dont trust the government at all. in america its a big money grab with the politicians. so ofc we hate knowing the government is in control. hell, we were founded on having less government (which truly lasted until the end of the civil war). and if you listen to the government, you will trust them even less because 90% of what they talk about is how the other guy is corrupt, crooked, or just stupid. they undermine their own validity without realizing it.

im a huge faggot

So what makes you think I agree with the IRS?

Watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDK5nB3_8Ec

wat
you dont have to agree with the irs, but your point of it violating your rights is ridiculous and a nonpoint.
destroying our current health care system may be the only way to fix something that is that big and entrenched. our system is going out of control. you dont know this because you have clearly watched your premiums raise 10-20% a year. clearly so bad when its 70 bucks a month. now that my premium for just me is about 170, and it raises at min 17% a year the last 5 years, well, ill let you extrapolate it over the next 10 years.

btw, your link at work

The new healthcare reform proposed does clearly fix the cost issue. All it does it make a public option and make those who choose clearly to have the healthcare to pay fines.