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NBA Playoff Discussion '10
Views: 28678 | Replies: 618 | Started 13 years, 11 months ago
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#705302 | Tue - Apr 27 2010 - 19:30:37
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Quote (bubbachunk @ Tue - Apr 27 2010 - 16:50:43)
Quote (blind_chief @ Tue - Apr 27 2010 - 18:20:32)
sadface
bulls and blazers are both on their way out (bulls first)
at least i can get to watching baseball faster this way


Rose and Noah need some help on that team to do anything.
Portland just needs to have everyone healthy for once


agree on both fronts


3!

This post has been edited by blind_chief on Tue - Apr 27 2010 - 19:30:44
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#705316 | Tue - Apr 27 2010 - 20:01:59
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Quote (bubbachunk @ Tue - Apr 27 2010 - 15:50:07)
Quote (lobb @ Tue - Apr 27 2010 - 18:09:53)
Quote (bubbachunk @ Tue - Apr 27 2010 - 12:22:26)
I love watch Nash operate like he should without that big schmuck shaq clogging everything up. <3 Steve


yes

game 3 he was a maestro, i don't think he had one failed pass. game 4 i did not see and game 5 he was still operating incredibly, i think he did end up throwing a couple away though

his sense of where everyone is on the court and what he needs to do to move the ball around is amazing


Yea there was one easy one he missed in the first half but otherwise was on target. The bench played incredibly well two.


i think i said it in this topic but the suns have a solid bench that works well together, and having game 5 at home really helped bring frye and dudley back into their rhythm. they are able to get things done decently enough that hill and nash have time to rest which is super ofc
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#705514 | Wed - Apr 28 2010 - 12:49:45
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i think credit is owed to joe's protege, rose, for leading a team 2 years in a row (not to mention his first two years)

This post has been edited by Raffles on Wed - Apr 28 2010 - 12:49:57
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#705517 | Wed - Apr 28 2010 - 12:52:02
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Quote (Raffles @ Wed - Apr 28 2010 - 10:49:45)
i think credit is owed to joe's protege, rose, for leading a team 2 years in a row (not to mention his first two years)


not too mention that if they give us the continuation the game takes a drastically different turn, and with the god child being hurt we may have pulled off a win
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#705518 | Wed - Apr 28 2010 - 12:56:41
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LBJ's right arm is broken.

Good night Cleaveland.
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#705522 | Wed - Apr 28 2010 - 13:14:36
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Quote (blind_chief @ Wed - Apr 28 2010 - 12:52:02)
Quote (Raffles @ Wed - Apr 28 2010 - 10:49:45)
i think credit is owed to joe's protege, rose, for leading a team 2 years in a row (not to mention his first two years)


not too mention that if they give us the continuation the game takes a drastically different turn, and with the god child being hurt we may have pulled off a win


i was thinking about that last night after the game
if that was kobe it wouldve been an and 1, espns top 10, and something else to add to his highlight reel
but no, it was typically nba referreing
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#705523 | Wed - Apr 28 2010 - 13:15:26
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Quote (MoS. @ Wed - Apr 28 2010 - 12:56:41)
LBJ's right arm is broken.

Good night Cleaveland.



really?
god damn atleast he was a man about it he just thought he hit his funny bone
this could potentially fuck up the rest of his carrer (i.e - free agency this summer)
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#705547 | Wed - Apr 28 2010 - 15:12:42
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there's no reported structural damage in lebron's arm afaik. but it's been bugging him for a while (weeks).

the bulls did well to stay with the cavs for most of the series. it's hard to tell which celtics team we'll see facing off against the cavs, but i don't think it matters. if lebron is healthy, i don't see the cavs winning the series. the best case for the celtics would be for rondo to be unstoppable, which would open up allen for shooting, and pierce for whatever he wants. if they can get some production out of garnett and perkins, they might be able to slow down shaq or get him into foul trouble. what i see as a more likely scenario is lebron dominating the series on both sides of the court. the cavs are a strong defensive team, so the celtics won't be performing a walk-through. i think everything will depend on rondo for the celts.

i'm worried about denver now. they're the one team i would have thought would go another round (or further) that probably won't now. i think they're better with george carl, and i think they've been a bit lazy at times. the team hasn't really gelled around chauncey like i thought they would :(
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#706306 | Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 15:24:37
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please god let the spurs-mavs series end tonight just so i won't need to watch at least 1 of those BORING teams anymore. nothing else would make me cheer for the spurs :(

i guess genobli is an interesting player and j kidd had his time in the sun etc.



looking fwd to the suns game ton8, not sure if i will watch the whole game or get tired and go to sleep at half-time.
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#706349 | Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 16:22:47
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Quote (RewtheBrave @ Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 12:24:37)
please god let the spurs-mavs series end tonight just so i won't need to watch at least 1 of those BORING teams anymore. nothing else would make me cheer for the spurs :(

i guess genobli is an interesting player and j kidd had his time in the sun etc.



looking fwd to the suns game ton8, not sure if i will watch the whole game or get tired and go to sleep at half-time.


i want the spurs/mavs game to somehow critically injure everyone

so on the chance it goes to game 7 it doesn't matter who the suns play we'll finally get past them

This post has been edited by lobb on Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 16:22:53
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#706358 | Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 16:36:39
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Quote (lobb @ Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 17:22:47)
Quote (RewtheBrave @ Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 12:24:37)
please god let the spurs-mavs series end tonight just so i won't need to watch at least 1 of those BORING teams anymore. nothing else would make me cheer for the spurs :(

i guess genobli is an interesting player and j kidd had his time in the sun etc.



looking fwd to the suns game ton8, not sure if i will watch the whole game or get tired and go to sleep at half-time.


i want the spurs/mavs game to somehow critically injure everyone

so on the chance it goes to game 7 it doesn't matter who the suns play we'll finally get past them


i could see the suns beating the winner on either side of that pair
trouble is the fakers (or thunder) would be bad match-ups for the suns. they should pray that the fakers lose.

doesn't matter. the cavs will win it all if lebron is healthy. the magic could surprise them but i think the cavs can stop howard. if the lakers win it all i will be pissed at the NBA in general.
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#706362 | Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 16:41:27
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Quote (RewtheBrave @ Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 13:36:39)
Quote (lobb @ Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 17:22:47)
Quote (RewtheBrave @ Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 12:24:37)
please god let the spurs-mavs series end tonight just so i won't need to watch at least 1 of those BORING teams anymore. nothing else would make me cheer for the spurs :(

i guess genobli is an interesting player and j kidd had his time in the sun etc.



looking fwd to the suns game ton8, not sure if i will watch the whole game or get tired and go to sleep at half-time.


i want the spurs/mavs game to somehow critically injure everyone

so on the chance it goes to game 7 it doesn't matter who the suns play we'll finally get past them


i could see the suns beating the winner on either side of that pair
trouble is the fakers (or thunder) would be bad match-ups for the suns. they should pray that the fakers lose.

doesn't matter. the cavs will win it all if lebron is healthy. the magic could surprise them but i think the cavs can stop howard. if the lakers win it all i will be pissed at the NBA in general.


i can see the suns beating the winner on either side of that pair too

except for where they choke, every year, at the wall that is their inevitable matchup with spurs/mavs. every year
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#706401 | Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 19:29:02
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Quote (lobb @ Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 17:41:27)
Quote (RewtheBrave @ Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 13:36:39)
Quote (lobb @ Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 17:22:47)
Quote (RewtheBrave @ Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 12:24:37)
please god let the spurs-mavs series end tonight just so i won't need to watch at least 1 of those BORING teams anymore. nothing else would make me cheer for the spurs :(

i guess genobli is an interesting player and j kidd had his time in the sun etc.



looking fwd to the suns game ton8, not sure if i will watch the whole game or get tired and go to sleep at half-time.


i want the spurs/mavs game to somehow critically injure everyone

so on the chance it goes to game 7 it doesn't matter who the suns play we'll finally get past them


i could see the suns beating the winner on either side of that pair
trouble is the fakers (or thunder) would be bad match-ups for the suns. they should pray that the fakers lose.

doesn't matter. the cavs will win it all if lebron is healthy. the magic could surprise them but i think the cavs can stop howard. if the lakers win it all i will be pissed at the NBA in general.


i can see the suns beating the winner on either side of that pair too

except for where they choke, every year, at the wall that is their inevitable matchup with spurs/mavs. every year


the big hope is that as the suns get older, the spurs will get older-er
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#706411 | Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 20:34:48
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if only. ;[
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#706413 | Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 20:57:14
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bump for portland
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#706472 | Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 22:10:53
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bump for joe making me think of a good point

bump for im tired of seeing one man teams in the nba
toronto,miama,cleveland,chicago,portland all i can think of off the top of my head
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#706516 | Fri - Apr 30 2010 - 00:43:05
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Quote (blind_chief @ Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 17:57:14)
bump for portland


gg etc etc. i was kind of worried when martel and rudy sank like 5? relatively-unanswered threes

next up we fall hard to the spurs, awesome
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#706517 | Fri - Apr 30 2010 - 00:43:50
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also nash was definitely off in the first quarter, it was not a good start for him at all.

he better not do that v spurs, cause they won't be so forgiving
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#706897 | Fri - Apr 30 2010 - 18:57:09
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Quote (Raffles @ Thu - Apr 29 2010 - 23:10:53)
bump for joe making me think of a good point

bump for im tired of seeing one man teams in the nba
toronto,miama,cleveland,chicago,portland all i can think of off the top of my head


cleveland has a clear best player but i don't see them as a one man team.

toronto - bosh
miami - wade (some help from beasely)
cleveland - lebron, williams, shaq (when healthy), varejo
chicago - rose, noah ... (hinrich and deng can be factors (deng is improving each year it seems))
portland - roy ... totally depends on who is healthy

cleveland is a well-balanced team with a superstar; miami is a horribly balanced team with a superstar.
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#706989 | Fri - Apr 30 2010 - 23:23:36
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asjhlfaslkfhlkasdflkjhaflkjadflhasdfa gasol goddamnit


fuck

i was so excited to see a game 7 and then a lakers first round loss

durant missed so many shots and they were still so close

damn
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#707009 | Sat - May 1 2010 - 00:01:35
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fuck oak
go lak
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#707092 | Sat - May 1 2010 - 07:40:51
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Quote (lobb @ Sat - May 1 2010 - 00:23:36)
asjhlfaslkfhlkasdflkjhaflkjadflhasdfa gasol goddamnit


fuck

i was so excited to see a game 7 and then a lakers first round loss

durant missed so many shots and they were still so close

damn


7'1" with .5 seconds left is what happened. i ended up staying up later than i'd intended so that i could watch the whole game. gasol literally walked into the spot and got the board, hardly leaving the ground. it makes NO sense that collison would be crouching around the same-side baseline as the shot with so little time left. he should've been on the move. kobe can't make a baseline drive after pulling up so he should've located gasol and shut him out. the african guy (the young guy) should've shifted as he saw the shot go up so that he could play the short side rebound, or he could've looked around while the shot went up to locate laker big men and any guards that might be making a play for the oop.

the game was pretty good, and even though durant missed a ton of shots, the lakers had to work hard as a team to get the win. i'm out 100 fps now ofc.
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#707462 | Sun - May 2 2010 - 01:50:19
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Lebron is King. Mo Williams was pretty damn good though.
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#707524 | Sun - May 2 2010 - 10:16:37
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Quote (sir_lance_bb @ Sun - May 2 2010 - 02:50:19)
Lebron is King. Mo Williams was pretty damn good though.


Mo was amazing for one quarter but that's all they needed him for.Imo Lebron wasn't even dominant that game.
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#707687 | Sun - May 2 2010 - 10:55:22
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Quote (Du$tin @ Sun - May 2 2010 - 11:16:37)
Quote (sir_lance_bb @ Sun - May 2 2010 - 02:50:19)
Lebron is King. Mo Williams was pretty damn good though.


Mo was amazing for one quarter but that's all they needed him for.Imo Lebron wasn't even dominant that game.


i thought he dominated toward the end but he was obviously slowed down but the arm injury. i have to wonder if he may have pulled the muscle. i keep hearing different things, but the main story seems to be that he has a strained elbow and a bruised bone. i think the elbow is a little more than strained but it's hard to say. he's not grimacing a ton, all things considered.

west and mo both had huge parts in that win. shaq had some good moments, too. the celtics played well in the first half but their defense fell apart a bit late ron; it didn't help that the cavs played really well on offense, either. ray allen played pretty well; pierce tried to get going but he just couldn't find the mark. rondo had a great first half, and a decent second half. garnett had a great game. he seemed 5 years younger than he is.

the celtics showed that they can beat the cavs, but the cavs showed a lot of poise. the cavs still have the better team imo but if boston plays well as a team they can score and defend against anyone. they just lack speed (except for rondo [allen is fast but he's not really a fast break guy]).
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#708079 | Sun - May 2 2010 - 17:19:57
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4 in a sec
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#708080 | Sun - May 2 2010 - 17:23:39
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4

lakers narrowly beat the jazz but they look like the superior team

gl defending against the lakers in the post
gl beating kobe now that he's looked a little healthier in his last 2 games

mavs are out

hoping suns can make it far enough to get dominated by the lakers unless they somehow force the issue in transition. but then brown and odom will see some playing time to diffuse that bomb and jackson could regret it. more likely: lakers would just pound the suns. the lakers aren't bad enough to get caught up in the speed game.

predicting lakers cavs finals as per what i've been predicting all season (it got a lot easier after the trade deadline in terms of seeing the cavs in the finals).
nba should change its name to predictable league.
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#708081 | Sun - May 2 2010 - 17:24:18
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nvm about 4 its 50 ppp
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#708105 | Sun - May 2 2010 - 20:50:02
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DISO: Celtics to play all 4 quarters as well as they did the first two in Game 1
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#708110 | Sun - May 2 2010 - 21:04:08
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Just like to mention you have been doing a terrible job betting rew.
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#708216 | Mon - May 3 2010 - 09:49:08
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Quote (sir_lance_bb @ Sun - May 2 2010 - 22:04:08)
Just like to mention you have been doing a terrible job betting rew.


that's why i called my bets underdog bets ;)
i didn't expect to win either series but i wanted the bucks and thunder to prevail. not all bets are made to win. the other bet i have up is ftw, though. i'm not a basketball insider or expert, but i predict almost every series right (in terms of actual prediction). the only series that i would've guessed the other way so far in the nba playoffs in the 1st round nuggets vs jazz series IF george carl would've been coaching -- and it would've been a toos-up anyway (not something i'd wager on for $ or anything). i think the nuggets are better than the jazz, but deron williams is not an easy guard to dictate tempo etc against. the nuggets need to gel a bit better, and i think anthony still takes quarters off.

the celts are an underdog team that could pull a huge upset against the cavs. they have a lot of talent and they work well as a team (and they play defense). but i think the cavs are just flat-out better. they have a LOT of valuable pieces they can shift around, and teams with staggering depth usually go a few rounds into the playoffs. the celtics aren't just older than they were when they won it all; they also have a relatively shallow bench. robinson has showboating issues but i think he's done well in his new role. what's-his-face (daniels) with the dreads is a good utility guy but parker is a better utility guy for the cavs. sheed hasn't produced. i think the celtics may have screwed up buy taking robinson and wallace, since both have need to ADJUST their attitudes to be good team players; robinson is mor eof a 1-on-1 guy, and sheed isn't as active as he was in the past.

i can't cheer against the celtics but i'm cheering for the cavs more.

i think the suns and spurs is a do-or-die series for the suns as a team in general. if they can't beat the spurs now, when will they ever get it done? nash may have a few good years left in him (and hill, too), but they aren't a spring chicken squad. the suns can control the tempo of the series, and they NEED to keep it at a high pace. the spurs can't really break out in transition because parker/genobli/hill are the only guys they can get on the move. the suns need t hit 3s and run like hell. in the hlaf court, i think they will need some help in the fwd positions. amare can take care of business but otherwise the suns need to get better inside. hill is a great half court defender, and i think barbosa can be pretty good, but the suns will have holes on defense no matter who they put in. so they will need to stay in front of genobli/parker and force the spurs to either dump it down and (force duncan to) make a decision or risk losimng the ball due to active hands from the suns.

the suns just need to keep genobli and parker out of the key, and then on offense if they can race and shoot they will win the series. that's why coachescare so much about tempo ... with teams as different as the spurs and suns, tempo is everything.
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#708351 | Mon - May 3 2010 - 15:11:30
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Quote (RewtheBrave @ Mon - May 3 2010 - 09:49:08)
Quote (sir_lance_bb @ Sun - May 2 2010 - 22:04:08)
Just like to mention you have been doing a terrible job betting rew.


that's why i called my bets underdog bets ;)
i didn't expect to win either series but i wanted the bucks and thunder to prevail. not all bets are made to win. the other bet i have up is ftw, though. i'm not a basketball insider or expert, but i predict almost every series right (in terms of actual prediction). the only series that i would've guessed the other way so far in the nba playoffs in the 1st round nuggets vs jazz series IF george carl would've been coaching -- and it would've been a toos-up anyway (not something i'd wager on for $ or anything). i think the nuggets are better than the jazz, but deron williams is not an easy guard to dictate tempo etc against. the nuggets need to gel a bit better, and i think anthony still takes quarters off.

the celts are an underdog team that could pull a huge upset against the cavs. they have a lot of talent and they work well as a team (and they play defense). but i think the cavs are just flat-out better. they have a LOT of valuable pieces they can shift around, and teams with staggering depth usually go a few rounds into the playoffs. the celtics aren't just older than they were when they won it all; they also have a relatively shallow bench. robinson has showboating issues but i think he's done well in his new role. what's-his-face (daniels) with the dreads is a good utility guy but parker is a better utility guy for the cavs. sheed hasn't produced. i think the celtics may have screwed up buy taking robinson and wallace, since both have need to ADJUST their attitudes to be good team players; robinson is mor eof a 1-on-1 guy, and sheed isn't as active as he was in the past.

i can't cheer against the celtics but i'm cheering for the cavs more.

i think the suns and spurs is a do-or-die series for the suns as a team in general. if they can't beat the spurs now, when will they ever get it done? nash may have a few good years left in him (and hill, too), but they aren't a spring chicken squad. the suns can control the tempo of the series, and they NEED to keep it at a high pace. the spurs can't really break out in transition because parker/genobli/hill are the only guys they can get on the move. the suns need t hit 3s and run like hell. in the hlaf court, i think they will need some help in the fwd positions. amare can take care of business but otherwise the suns need to get better inside. hill is a great half court defender, and i think barbosa can be pretty good, but the suns will have holes on defense no matter who they put in. so they will need to stay in front of genobli/parker and force the spurs to either dump it down and (force duncan to) make a decision or risk losimng the ball due to active hands from the suns.

the suns just need to keep genobli and parker out of the key, and then on offense if they can race and shoot they will win the series. that's why coachescare so much about tempo ... with teams as different as the spurs and suns, tempo is everything.


I'm sorry I couldn't read this essay. But I read a few lines and saw underdog so I think I got the idea.
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#708369 | Mon - May 3 2010 - 16:39:29
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Quote (RewtheBrave @ Tue - Apr 13 2010 - 11:47:42)
on winning the 2010 nba championship (unless key injuries happen).

just sayin'


you're a faggot

just sayin'







Tippin'
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#708390 | Mon - May 3 2010 - 18:23:13
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Quote (shortstop @ Mon - May 3 2010 - 14:39:29)
Tippin'


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#708514 | Tue - May 4 2010 - 01:32:49
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this is the suns' year.
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#708591 | Tue - May 4 2010 - 11:07:35
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Quote (lobb @ Tue - May 4 2010 - 02:32:49)
this is the suns' year.


nice win vs the douches. i mean, the spurs. the spurs made a few runs at the end but steve and the nashettes held them off. iso series win with time to spare so the suns can recover for a much bigger challenge.
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#708639 | Tue - May 4 2010 - 11:42:18
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gn8 del negro
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#708665 | Tue - May 4 2010 - 12:25:16
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Quote (blind_chief @ Tue - May 4 2010 - 12:42:18)
gn8 del negro


"And, when Bulls vice president of basketball operations John Paxson can storm into Vinny Del Negro's office, grab his tie and shove him for playing center Joakim Noah too many minutes, something is wrong.

Paxson literally could have been arrested if he acted the same way at an accounting firm or a law office. At the bare minimum, he would have been sent to Toby Flenderson in human resources and asked to attend anger-management classes.

In the twisted world that is the NBA, Del Negro is painted as the bad guy by the Bulls, who fired him on Tuesday despite Del Negro leading the team to the postseason in both of his seasons at the helm. Paxson, meanwhile, still has his high-paying job and the ability to choose Del Negro's successor."

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#708666 | Tue - May 4 2010 - 12:25:59
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also wtf, it's not like noah shouldn't have had TONs of minutes.
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#708683 | Tue - May 4 2010 - 12:48:01
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i liked vinny, i really dont understand what paxson was up to
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#708806 | Tue - May 4 2010 - 18:56:02
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Quote (blind_chief @ Tue - May 4 2010 - 13:48:01)
i liked vinny, i really dont understand what paxson was up to


he was up to being an overpaid, overvalued prick from what i can tell (without knowing any details)
if it's rly about noah getting too much playing time,

a. nn to attack vinny at his desk
b. nn to be a bitch when vinny reacted like any man would
c. so instead of playing noah he would play whom? deng? gibson? miller? imo noah/deng as often as possible. brad miller is overrated, always has been.

EDIT: i don't think del negro was horrible but he did spit acid at times.

This post has been edited by RewtheBrave on Tue - May 4 2010 - 18:57:05
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#708828 | Tue - May 4 2010 - 20:19:32
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Quote (RewtheBrave @ Tue - May 4 2010 - 16:56:02)
Quote (blind_chief @ Tue - May 4 2010 - 13:48:01)
i liked vinny, i really dont understand what paxson was up to


he was up to being an overpaid, overvalued prick from what i can tell (without knowing any details)
if it's rly about noah getting too much playing time,

a. nn to attack vinny at his desk
b. nn to be a bitch when vinny reacted like any man would
c. so instead of playing noah he would play whom? deng? gibson? miller? imo noah/deng as often as possible. brad miller is overrated, always has been.

EDIT: i don't think del negro was horrible but he did spit acid at times.


in chicago someone who spits acid is liked
we appreciate unbridled passion, the fact they were both in each others faces was ok to me but they should have been allowed to deck each other they go drink a beer together
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#708835 | Tue - May 4 2010 - 21:05:02
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the only thing Brad Miller has is an outside shot, Noah is better than him at just about every other aspect at this point in their careers. Maybe FTs, I'll give Miller that one too.

also, LOL @ the articles about Danny Ainge throwing the towel during Hixon FTs. Slow news day, I 'spose.
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#708837 | Tue - May 4 2010 - 21:05:35
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speaking of chicago

wtf is up with atlanta?
gettin' spanked. hard. not in a way they would've liked.
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#708841 | Tue - May 4 2010 - 21:08:00
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Atlanta just played a 7 game series, Orlando has been resting for over a week? And it's in Orlando? And the Hawks aren't actually that good?
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#708843 | Tue - May 4 2010 - 21:10:43
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Quote (StQ @ Tue - May 4 2010 - 21:08:00)
Atlanta just played a 7 game series, Orlando has been resting for over a week?  And it's in Orlando?  And the Hawks aren't actually that good?


you might have a valid point there steeks ;)
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#708844 | Tue - May 4 2010 - 21:13:03
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wouldn't be surprised to see the Magic win in 4-5 games while the Celts/Cavs go 7 games, then see the Magic win it in 7. Also, fuck the Magic and Stan Van Gundy's haggard face.
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#708847 | Tue - May 4 2010 - 21:16:05
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possibly agree, depending how games 3 and 4 go for the celts. I could see them taking it in 6 but have my doubts if it stretches out to 7
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#708852 | Tue - May 4 2010 - 21:20:00
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pissed I had to miss out on game 2, was watching the Sox mollystomp the Angels IRL, though. Bruins/Celtics/Sox all playing on the same night. Was funny though, everyone around me had the other 2 sports updating on their phones using GameCast. I'd rather watch the Celts shit on the Cavs than a Sox game in early May.
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#708854 | Tue - May 4 2010 - 21:20:43
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Quote (StQ @ Tue - May 4 2010 - 22:05:02)
the only thing Brad Miller has is an outside shot, Noah is better than him at just about every other aspect at this point in their careers.  Maybe FTs, I'll give Miller that one too.

also, LOL @ the articles about Danny Ainge throwing the towel during Hixon FTs.  Slow news day, I 'spose.


noah is a player i would definitely take on my team, good rebounder decent post game fights hard everynight
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