Desolate Carnage
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New Nba Season
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#762875 | Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 15:27:12
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Has started.

Celts (w) vs Heat (l)
Lakers (w) vs Rockets (l)

Those two games more or less sum up my feelings about those teams in a microcosmic way. They will all improve if they stay healthy. The Heat are actually rebuilding, but for them a rebuilding year means taking a shot at the title. Their first game was a nightmare, and if Lebron hadn't turned on the juice, they could easily have lost by 20 points. But he shows just how dangerous they can be. And when Wade gets healthy, if they can gel as a team on the floor, they will always have the potential to make huge 4th quarter turnarounds against any defense. However I expected them to be terrible and they were terrible. They will get better, but I don't see them as a legit title contender ...

... especially after watching the Lakers vs Rockets. That was a great game. It was well-played by both sides. They're both playing at about 70% right now, due to team changes and injuries. Odom looked great. Kobe was slower and weaker than usual but he still controlled the game. Gasol played well. Ming did really well considering his injury. The Rockets showed that their guards and their depth and defensive play make them a top 5 team in the league--no question about it.

Those games could very well mirror this year's conference finals. I just don't know if the Heat can beat the Magic. And the Jazz shouldn't be forgotten in the West. The west has a few teams that are stacked this year, so it will be interesting to see how teams stand after 20-25 games. The Lakers have an easy schedule, so this will help them during the process of rebuilding bodies.

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#762893 | Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 16:14:03
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gonna enjoy cheering against miami this year
also steve blake(former UMD terp) with the gamewinning shot for the lakers, wish he went to the wizards even more now...
also also stopped reading at Rockets(l)
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#762901 | Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 16:41:33
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LOL, I'll check back in when the semi finals start.
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#762907 | Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 16:51:45
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Steve Blake looks pretty good. The Lakers run a simple offensive system but it has a lot of adjustments or opportunities (however you want to put it, you could just call them options), so new players often don't get it. Most opposing teams struggle against it. But Blake actually seems to have the idea down. He needs to engage a little more in terms of anticipating stuff, but he's doing really well for a young guy. It looks like Shannon Brown has worked to fit into his role now as well.

The Heat looked disorganized. They will figure a lot of stuff out as the season progresses, but as I've said forever, they'll probably end up running the game through Lebron. I think that limits then in a lot of ways, but it also gives them a kind of explosion that no other team has. I really, really don't want Wade to take on a secondary role. I hope he recovers better and gets his head into things soon, because I think that if they do well, he should be the key to their success.

Boston looked better than I had expected. I expected them to have lower energy despite the big game. They look like they did a lot of work in the summer and it's actually really great to see that kind of passion coming from a group of veterans. I can't say enough about the Rockets. I think they're the best team in the NBA if you go by by output vs talent. For their level of talent, they're the best team in the NBA, bar none.

I look forward to the games tonight, but I'll only catch bits of the Clippers game. I think Blake Griffon is going to be a superstar in the NBA.
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#762916 | Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 17:06:16
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suns lost, aren't going to the playoffs this year

lakers should have lost
miami lost

ugh
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#762918 | Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 17:11:07
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lakers
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#762921 | Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 17:18:05
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Quote (lobb @ Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 18:06:16)
suns lost, aren't going to the playoffs this year

lakers should have lost
miami lost

ugh


lakers will do better once all the roles are ironed out again and once kobe is healthy. they will always look bad against teams with scoring guards, but i'm p sure phil jackson will be reminding the post players about how to help on the drive. kobe is sort of lame atm and fisher is a good defender (skill-wise) but he sometimes gets lazy. they still have the best big men in the game and the best skilled player in the history of basketball (kobe ofc).

miami will improve, too. or i hope so, because the only thing that kept them close was lebron's typical psychotic attack mode at the end of a big game. the first tow games just showed me what i already knew. i want to see how some of the rebuilding teams will do this year, and to see what teams will challenge for playoff positions this year. until the season starts, teams that make big changes are still mostly unknown, even to themselves. last year the bucks and the thunder exploded onto the scene. even though the thunder weren't winning a lot of games early on, they probably scared the crap out of the elite teams. their talent and athleticism speaks for itself. what saves everyone is that they're still awkward. trouble is, now they have confidence.
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#762923 | Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 17:23:51
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thanks for the essay

all i really wanted to say was fuck the lakers, i'm glad the heat lost, i hope both lose repeatedly this year

the suns won't go anywhere

at least i've got good fantasy numbers
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#762925 | Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 17:35:06
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who did you choose for your fantasy team? assuming you made one

i love the suns but i don't think they have it anymore either. fml knicks vs raptors will be on soon. the raptors bring shame to my country.
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#762926 | Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 17:36:04
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Quote (RewtheBrave @ Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 18:35:06)
who did you choose for your fantasy team? assuming you made one

i love the suns but i don't think they have it anymore either. fml knicks vs raptors will be on soon. the raptors bring shame to my country.


by that i mean their ability to play the game is terrible. if they work hard this season they will have my respect as people.

This post has been edited by RewtheBrave on Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 17:36:10
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#762937 | Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 18:52:46
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Celtics over everyone
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#762948 | Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 19:26:35
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Quote (RewtheBrave @ Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 14:35:06)
who did you choose for your fantasy team? assuming you made one

i love the suns but i don't think they have it anymore either. fml knicks vs raptors will be on soon. the raptors bring shame to my country.


my fantasy team;

Deron Williams
(Uta - PG)
Manu Ginobili
(SA - SG)
Jose Calderon
(Tor - PG)
Boris Diaw
(Cha - SF,PF)
Anderson Varejao
(Cle - PF,C)
Darko Milicic
(Min - PF,C)
Joakim Noah
(Chi - PF,C)
Emeka Okafor
(NO - C)
Kevin Garnett
(Bos - PF)
Andrei Kirilenko
(Uta - SF,PF)
Steve Nash
(Pho - PG)
Jason Richardson
(Pho - SG,SF)
Robin Lopez
(Pho - PF,C)
Wilson Chandler
(NY - SF,PF)

i got pick 6 in a snake draft, so it was a little rough but as long as i got nash and j rich i was pretty happy with who else i picked up
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#762962 | Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 20:37:42
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Quote (lobb @ Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 20:26:35)
Quote (RewtheBrave @ Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 14:35:06)
who did you choose for your fantasy team? assuming you made one

i love the suns but i don't think they have it anymore either. fml knicks vs raptors will be on soon. the raptors bring shame to my country.


my fantasy team;

Deron Williams
(Uta - PG)
Manu Ginobili
(SA - SG)
Jose Calderon
(Tor - PG)
Boris Diaw
(Cha - SF,PF)
Anderson Varejao
(Cle - PF,C)
Darko Milicic
(Min - PF,C)
Joakim Noah
(Chi - PF,C)
Emeka Okafor
(NO - C)
Kevin Garnett
(Bos - PF)
Andrei Kirilenko
(Uta - SF,PF)
Steve Nash
(Pho - PG)
Jason Richardson
(Pho - SG,SF)
Robin Lopez
(Pho - PF,C)
Wilson Chandler
(NY - SF,PF)

i got pick 6 in a snake draft, so it was a little rough but as long as i got nash and j rich i was pretty happy with who else i picked up


that's a p good team. Calderon is efficient but he might hurt you if he loses PT to Jack this year (Jack is better imo). but a solid team overall. i think Lopez should be a potential all-star this year. J Rich is ridiculously athletic. KG is still a fantasy beast and he looks good this year. Williams can't hurt you (ofc), and Nash will beast up the assists and probably 3s too. if u had that roster as an NBA coach you'd be guaranteed a title.
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#762970 | Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 21:53:48
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the nba sucks
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#762972 | Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 21:55:23
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Blake Griffon dominating early in his 1st game. 8 pts halfway through 1st quarter.
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#762975 | Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 22:10:18
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Quote (RewtheBrave @ Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 22:55:23)
Blake Griffon dominating early in his 1st game. 8 pts halfway through 1st quarter.


being down 8 is hardly dominating
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#763001 | Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 23:00:08
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Quote (Du$tin @ Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 23:10:18)
Quote (RewtheBrave @ Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 22:55:23)
Blake Griffon dominating early in his 1st game. 8 pts halfway through 1st quarter.


being down 8 is hardly dominating


he wasn't down 8 before he took a break--his team went down 8 went he got off the floor ;) he was easily the star of the 1st quarter. 2nd quarter was more relaxed overall. the game went back and forth a bit.
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#763011 | Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 23:22:01
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Quote (RewtheBrave @ Thu - Oct 28 2010 - 00:00:08)
Quote (Du$tin @ Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 23:10:18)
Quote (RewtheBrave @ Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 22:55:23)
Blake Griffon dominating early in his 1st game. 8 pts halfway through 1st quarter.


being down 8 is hardly dominating


he wasn't down 8 before he took a break--his team went down 8 went he got off the floor ;) he was easily the star of the 1st quarter. 2nd quarter was more relaxed overall. the game went back and forth a bit.


not sure why they aren't calling mass fouls against the blazers on the boards. i've seen at least a dozen fouls where griffon got mauled with no call. just happened three rebounds in a row until camby got called for a foul. the blazers are playing smart in terms of bumping him and giving him cheapshots, and he's reacting with a bit of frustration because he's tired. not the type of guy anyone should upset.
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#763050 | Thu - Oct 28 2010 - 09:11:14
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blakes for real but they are still the clippers
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#763061 | Thu - Oct 28 2010 - 10:18:16
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i dont watch this sport
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#763122 | Thu - Oct 28 2010 - 15:00:17
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Quote (Sgull @ Thu - Oct 28 2010 - 10:18:16)
i dont watch this sport


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#763233 | Thu - Oct 28 2010 - 21:49:46
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also apparently so is wall, and the wizards suck almost as bad as the clippers
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#763234 | Thu - Oct 28 2010 - 22:00:18
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Quote (Du$tin @ Thu - Oct 28 2010 - 22:49:46)
also apparently so is wall, and the wizards suck almost as bad as the clippers


wall is very fast, corners well, sees the court, has a big wingspan ... but he's not a true NBA-ready player. he will have a lot of flashes of brilliance but he needs to work on his jumpshot and his overall game before he can lay claim to stardom. he has a lot of potential and if he learns fast, he could be a big threat within a few months. for now his speed and co-ordination as well as his vision and length will make him exciting and a handful for opposing defenders.

griffon is a bit positionally awkward, in the sense that he doesn't always know where to be or what to do, so he ends up standing around. he also needs to improve his cardio. but he's extremely powerful and he's highly skilled, so he's more NBA-ready than wall. he has a lot of potential, too, but he brings a more complete physique and skill set to the game.
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#763250 | Thu - Oct 28 2010 - 23:11:41
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bulls #1
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#763253 | Thu - Oct 28 2010 - 23:30:47
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Quote (blind_chief @ Fri - Oct 29 2010 - 00:11:41)
bulls #1


#1 east at best, more likely mid lvl playoff team due to celts, heat, magic etc
#1 worst decision in firing a coach last year, top 5 worst coach firings in last decade
#5-10 ish best guard in nba ... williams, paul, rondo, nash, wade, lebrah etc all better
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#763261 | Thu - Oct 28 2010 - 23:45:22
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Quote (RewtheBrave @ Thu - Oct 28 2010 - 21:30:47)
Quote (blind_chief @ Fri - Oct 29 2010 - 00:11:41)
bulls #1


#1 east at best, more likely mid lvl playoff team due to celts, heat, magic etc
#1 worst decision in firing a coach last year, top 5 worst coach firings in last decade
#5-10 ish best guard in nba ... williams, paul, rondo, nash, wade, lebrah etc all better


#1 bulls
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#763524 | Fri - Oct 29 2010 - 22:49:16
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raptors actually won a game. they played hard. inb4theygiveup.
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#764022 | Mon - Nov 1 2010 - 20:58:35
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raptors need to play hard tonight, i have calderon. he needs to step up for me, tyty

im leading my league for the first week, fyi

9-0, next two behind me are 6-3

i'm predicting a 6-3/5-4 win for me depending on fg% this week, it's going to be much much closer
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#764025 | Mon - Nov 1 2010 - 21:14:58
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Quote (lobb @ Mon - Nov 1 2010 - 21:58:35)
raptors need to play hard tonight, i have calderon. he needs to step up for me, tyty

im leading my league for the first week, fyi

9-0, next two behind me are 6-3

i'm predicting a 6-3/5-4 win for me depending on fg% this week, it's going to be much much closer


The Kings are beatable. The Raptors aren't offensively ready for the season yet but they will be able to score this year. And if they keep concentrating on defense they will surprise some teams. They will be terrible, but they are actually pretty deep with role players and all-around guys. Effort is the game plan this year. With effort, they can beat a lot of teams. At best I see them making it into the first round at the bottom of the East.

8-2 Raptors + and1 atm. GL with the season. Don't expect big things from my Raptors but tonight is very winnable. Calderon will split minutes with Jack about 50-50 (my guess), but he can actually be really efficient at times so you may get something from him, especially if he hits a few threes.
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#764028 | Mon - Nov 1 2010 - 21:22:27
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reggie evans would've been one of the best sleeper pics for rebounds in the NBA this year

wake up derozan

shut down tyreke gents

EDIT: thanks for waking up, derozan :)
EDIT: nice and1 play by Calderon just for you

This post has been edited by RewtheBrave on Mon - Nov 1 2010 - 21:38:11
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#764910 | Thu - Nov 4 2010 - 23:17:08
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it seems the biggest headline in the NBA is that the lakers are flying under the radar while winning games against lesser opponents

pretty sweet sensationalist journalism

AMG the heat are getting all the attention so let's focus on pretending to not focus on the lakers
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#764969 | Fri - Nov 5 2010 - 09:52:52
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john wall
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#765049 | Fri - Nov 5 2010 - 21:16:12
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Quote (Du$tin @ Fri - Nov 5 2010 - 10:52:52)
john wall


"The rookie out of Kentucky is averaging 23.7 points, 10.3 assists and 4 steals through his first three NBA games. In his third game, he nearly notched a triple-double, scoring 29 points, dishing out 14 assists and coming up with 9 steals. While these numbers may be impossible to sustain over a full season, Wall has flashed incredible potential early."

Gonna add two notes:

1. Shooting 50% from 3 pt range so far is a HUGE fluke. He's not even a decent NBA shooter as far as guards are concerned.
2. He may end up leading the NBA in turnovers this season.

That being said, he's incredibly fast and he can really pass the ball and finish at the hoop. He has a lot of athleticism, so he has the potential to become a very strong defender. I still don't feel certain that Wall is NBA-ready. I'm not really talking about the turnovers,m and I'm willing to acknowledge his speed and talent. In a way, I think he's SO talented that once he really gets a feel for the game, he could create some shock waves. I don't think he will eliminate the turnover issue. He's just going to understand the game much, much better. He's a smart kid who wants to learn, so it shouldn't take him forever.

Blake Griffon is actually less NBA-ready than I expected in terms of understanding the game, but his physical ability and his skills are ridiculous, so he will do well.

Can't tell you which one will be rookie of the year, but both are spectacular. Cousins has been good as expected, too.

These guys are major standouts in an otherwise (mostly) boring rookie class ... and Griffon is really a +1 to the rookie pool since he was injured last season.
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#765050 | Fri - Nov 5 2010 - 21:16:50
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Rondo 82 assists in 5 games. Obvious ball hog is obvious.
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#765057 | Fri - Nov 5 2010 - 21:47:06
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Quote (RewtheBrave @ Fri - Nov 5 2010 - 22:16:12)
Quote (Du$tin @ Fri - Nov 5 2010 - 10:52:52)
john wall


"The rookie out of Kentucky is averaging 23.7 points, 10.3 assists and 4 steals through his first three NBA games. In his third game, he nearly notched a triple-double, scoring 29 points, dishing out 14 assists and coming up with 9 steals. While these numbers may be impossible to sustain over a full season, Wall has flashed incredible potential early."

Gonna add two notes:

1. Shooting 50% from 3 pt range so far is a HUGE fluke. He's not even a decent NBA shooter as far as guards are concerned.
2. He may end up leading the NBA in turnovers this season.

That being said, he's incredibly fast and he can really pass the ball and finish at the hoop. He has a lot of athleticism, so he has the potential to become a very strong defender. I still don't feel certain that Wall is NBA-ready. I'm not really talking about the turnovers,m and I'm willing to acknowledge his speed and talent. In a way, I think he's SO talented that once he really gets a feel for the game, he could create some shock waves. I don't think he will eliminate the turnover issue. He's just going to understand the game much, much better. He's a smart kid who wants to learn, so it shouldn't take him forever.

Blake Griffon is actually less NBA-ready than I expected in terms of understanding the game, but his physical ability and his skills are ridiculous, so he will do well.

Can't tell you which one will be rookie of the year, but both are spectacular. Cousins has been good as expected, too.

These guys are major standouts in an otherwise (mostly) boring rookie class ... and Griffon is really a +1 to the rookie pool since he was injured last season.


yeah, he can't shoot

they are both on terrible teams so they will get a huge amount of playing time
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#765065 | Fri - Nov 5 2010 - 22:33:41
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Quote (Du$tin @ Fri - Nov 5 2010 - 22:47:06)
Quote (RewtheBrave @ Fri - Nov 5 2010 - 22:16:12)
Quote (Du$tin @ Fri - Nov 5 2010 - 10:52:52)
john wall


"The rookie out of Kentucky is averaging 23.7 points, 10.3 assists and 4 steals through his first three NBA games. In his third game, he nearly notched a triple-double, scoring 29 points, dishing out 14 assists and coming up with 9 steals. While these numbers may be impossible to sustain over a full season, Wall has flashed incredible potential early."

Gonna add two notes:

1. Shooting 50% from 3 pt range so far is a HUGE fluke. He's not even a decent NBA shooter as far as guards are concerned.
2. He may end up leading the NBA in turnovers this season.

That being said, he's incredibly fast and he can really pass the ball and finish at the hoop. He has a lot of athleticism, so he has the potential to become a very strong defender. I still don't feel certain that Wall is NBA-ready. I'm not really talking about the turnovers,m and I'm willing to acknowledge his speed and talent. In a way, I think he's SO talented that once he really gets a feel for the game, he could create some shock waves. I don't think he will eliminate the turnover issue. He's just going to understand the game much, much better. He's a smart kid who wants to learn, so it shouldn't take him forever.

Blake Griffon is actually less NBA-ready than I expected in terms of understanding the game, but his physical ability and his skills are ridiculous, so he will do well.

Can't tell you which one will be rookie of the year, but both are spectacular. Cousins has been good as expected, too.

These guys are major standouts in an otherwise (mostly) boring rookie class ... and Griffon is really a +1 to the rookie pool since he was injured last season.


yeah, he can't shoot

they are both on terrible teams so they will get a huge amount of playing time


I wouldn't be surprised if Wall actually kept up a pace of about 20 pts, 8 assists and 2 steals for the season. Those are HUGE numbers but I don't see why he can't be that productive. They will both definitely get mass PT. And the press loves them so they'll be #1 and #2 in rookie of the year voting unless something crazy happens. I could see Griffon becoming a disturbingly proficient NBA player in the future. 25 pts and 16 rebounds per game is the kind of outrageous stuff I really think he's capable of producing if he becomes a master of the game. These two guys have the kind of talent that wows me. Wall seems to have a really solid attitude toward learning the game, and Griffon has a hard work ethic. Either one of them could become an all-time great in some respect or another.

So few great, talented players listen and improve. And those who do often lose themselves in technical crap from all sides (uncoachable vs overcoached). The best of the best have their own style but constantly want to take things from different sources and add them into the mix. To me that's what's behind the real excitement I have about both of these athletes.
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#765163 | Sat - Nov 6 2010 - 15:36:05
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i already posted about john wall

besides the last thing the wizards need now is a bandwagon
ive been a wizard fan going on 4 years now, and since they got a first round pick and he was dominant as fuck in college doesnt mean people have to suck on some wiz cock
ever since arenas fucked up, haywood + blatch came onto team, and finally when butler left
things havent been the same
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#765581 | Mon - Nov 8 2010 - 22:35:29
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^^ I hope the Wizards will be able to surround Wall with talent so they can make repeated playoff appearances during his career. He has the physical ability to really shine in the playoffs. And he has enough stuff to work on atm that the team can afford a few rebuilding years.

My Craptors got smoked by Curry and Ellis ton8. I was going to write about my expectations for Ellis a while ago, but his scoring last season sort of speaks for itself. He's small, but he's incredibly fast and he has a lot of athleticism. I wouldn't be surprised if he kept his edge as the leading scorer in the NBA all season. That being said, in the end my own expectation is the Kevin Durant will lead the scoring race at season's end, partly due to consistency, partly due to skill level, and partly due to the fact that Curry will be doing a lot of the scoring for the Warriors. I hope Ellis isn't badly injured right now. He's one of the few players in the NBA that I think plays at a Havlicek (best 6th man in NBA history?)-type pace.
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#765610 | Tue - Nov 9 2010 - 09:25:39
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zack randolph proved last n8 exactly why the blazers dumped his stupid ass years ago (nvm the fact he was a black hole while he was in portland)
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#765718 | Tue - Nov 9 2010 - 13:46:49
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still sitting atop my fantasy league at 14-4

jrich is killing it for me this year, i love it

shame the suns aren't though
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#765819 | Tue - Nov 9 2010 - 19:19:42
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Quote (StQ @ Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 19:52:46)
Celtics over everyone


Yeah, how'd that work out last year?
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#765820 | Tue - Nov 9 2010 - 19:20:56
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Also, wake me up when the playoff start. Fuck this sport otherwise.
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#765822 | Tue - Nov 9 2010 - 19:24:17
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Quote (sardoniclysane @ Tue - Nov 9 2010 - 19:19:42)
Quote (StQ @ Wed - Oct 27 2010 - 19:52:46)
Celtics over everyone


Yeah, how'd that work out last year?


Game 7 of the Finals is NB
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#765829 | Tue - Nov 9 2010 - 19:53:15
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Quote (blind_chief @ Tue - Nov 9 2010 - 10:25:39)
zack randolph proved last n8 exactly why the blazers dumped his stupid ass years ago (nvm the fact he was a black hole while he was in portland)


42 minutes
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#766149 | Wed - Nov 10 2010 - 22:30:32
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triple double
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#766161 | Wed - Nov 10 2010 - 23:23:31
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Quote (lobb @ Tue - Nov 9 2010 - 14:46:49)
still sitting atop my fantasy league at 14-4

jrich is killing it for me this year, i love it

shame the suns aren't though


he's a great athlete. from an athletic standpoint, he's probably in the top 10-25 players in the NBA. freaky genetics. beasley/robinson type stuff.

Quote (blind_chief @ Tue - Nov 9 2010 - 10:25:39)
zack randolph proved last n8 exactly why the blazers dumped his stupid ass years ago (nvm the fact he was a black hole while he was in portland)


i'm not settled on whether i think he's a stud or a dud in terms of talent and athleticism. i think he's one of those guys who has perennial all-star potential but he needs to get in better shape to reach a higher level of play. otherwise he will just be worth starting on an OK team. he can rebound, he can score, he's reasonably athletic ... but i'm not totally sold on him.
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#766176 | Thu - Nov 11 2010 - 01:07:41
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i gotta say i still don't see john wall averaging 20 pts this season.


13/7 assts/2 steals possible for sure
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#766286 | Thu - Nov 11 2010 - 16:26:45
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Quote (Du$tin @ Thu - Nov 11 2010 - 02:07:41)
i gotta say i still don't see john wall averaging 20 pts this season.


13/7 assts/2 steals possible for sure


It will depend on his development and also on how often Arenas is around. I think Wall is capable of big numbers, but your idea is probably more realistic, although I think he will stay above 13 ppg. If he wants to average 20 ppg, he needs to keep working on his shot. If he could shoot the ball well from 20 feet, 20 ppg would be an afterthought. But I envision him being able to put up 20 ppg. It's just a matter of circumstance and work ethic--and how fast he can develop his game.
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#766298 | Thu - Nov 11 2010 - 16:46:48
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C's / Heat rd 2 ton8

I'll take the C's per usual, but if JO and Shaq are both out it could be trouble.

Bosh is such a fuckin' bitch it's funny. KG absolutely shuts him down 100% of the time, it's kind of sad.
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#766338 | Thu - Nov 11 2010 - 17:58:13
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miami is good this year
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