2

i tell you what if durant gained 50 lbs of muscle he could be the next generation of melo or lebron..and other legendary SFs

if durant gained 50 pounds he would be the best player in the nba by far

he might not need to gain weight to be legendary but i think it would help him out. he's a talented and highly competitive player. he's more athletic than he appeats to be at first sight.

melo has improved a lot, and so has lebron. melo seems to be giving more effort this season. he needs to be consistently aggressive and focused. lebron has a little bit more natural focus but he goes light sometimes, too. lebron is a lot faster than melo, but he doesn't post as well as melo does. to me melo is a good 4, lebron is a good 1,2,3 or 4.

durant is a superstar but i'm not sure he'll ever be among the all-time greats. he has a lot of time left to prove himself. the current guys who (imo) should be in the discussion of all-time greats for at least 50 years are:

kobe (by far the best current nba player)
lebron
dirk (but i honestly think he is WAY overrated because he can shoot)
nash (but doesn't defend well)
ray allen
kyle korver (FUCK me but if he keeps up his shooting % that's why he will be discussed, but only as a kerr-like guy, not like a bird)
shaq (most dominant big man in nba history)
kidd
paul pierce
rondo/jennings/curry if they keep improving
wade
duncan
garnett
iverson
howard (but he's a bitch)

in the middle:
gasol
durant
carter
artest (he's a special player who will never get the recognition he deserves)

outside looking in (people that in 50 years someone might say "oh yeeeeeeah" about:
billups
tony parker
amare
bosh
rose
chris paul/deron williams (they may end up in the list above, whereas rondo/jennings may drop down here)
melo (but he might end up faring better through history's eye)
jermaine o'neal (sorry, injuries f*cked you over)
etc etc etc there are a lot of really great players right now

some of those guys may or may not belong where i put them but that's my impression atm. some guys like stephon curry may end up being all-time greats. i think jennings and curry (but not teagues) have HUGE potential for being among the all-time greats. at least 3 guys in the ncaa this year look like potential all-time greats, too.

you put Kyle Korver at the top of your list?

and Shaq as the most dominant big man of all time?

Sheesh.

the list is in no particular order, and i'd be happier with korver at the bottom of the list. but in terms of the all-time best shooters, he's established himself. i think he's one-dimensional, but it counts for something.

shaq is definitely the most dominant big man of all time. his ONLY competition is wilt chamberlain. this is old and it's low quality but it gives you an idea of his post presence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUE_0LRxtpU

what's remarkable is that he's actually a skill player who happens to be a beast. i think he has better skill than gasol (gasoft), for example. i think he's better than tim duncan skill-wise BUT he can't shoot nearly as well. that is, i think he's one of the most skilled centers of all time, and he's also one of the mostly beastly. his hands, his footwork, his strength and his basketball IQ are top-notch; he's a great passer, a formerly great pick n roll guy, a guy with a huge offensive skill set (compare dwight howard who really only has one "unstoppable move" [unless he's right under the basket], and howard travels half the time he does it).

i think that shaq and wilt are way, way above anyone else. i see shaq as being more dominant. he doesn't have better ppg but what he has is the ability to completely dominate opponents in an age where basically everybody in the post is strong and athletic. that's why kobe and shaq are by far the best 1-2 punch in the history of the nba, probably followed by shaq and wade, or possibly by MJ and Pippen.

if i was going to make an all-nba all-time team starting line-up, shaq would make the cut but kobe wouldn't.

Shaq
Russell
Bird
Jordan
Magic Johnson (toughest call) or Oscar Robertson

Find me 5 guys better than that and I will poop my pants.

Do you realize how many rule changes there have in the nba since he came in the league that solely benefitted him?

Bill Russel > Shaq

David Robinson

comedy option Shawn Bradley

i was going to LOL if you put boozer on that list
hey you forgot ganobli and you shuold take down shak and add birdman

do you know that he is basically fouled every time he touches the ball?

how do you wanna rate a big man? hakeem proal had the best moves ever, though kareem was p much amazing in the post, couldnt be stopped ofc. wilt and shaq are like the same, they each were so physically above anyone they played against. bill and david are like the same, amazing defenders, great technical games, never flashy. shaq is basically the best all-around package though, he had far more finesse than anyone will admit. the dude could run the court, he basically was/is fouled every time he touched the ball. and he is a gr8 passer.

LOL @ Kyle Korver. I appreciate a guy that can shoot but that is all he brings. I mean if you wanted to start mentioning 3 point play, talk about Brent Barry or Big shot bob (Robert Horry). They are far far way better and Horry could do it in the clutch.

It is hard to argue big man because Russel was amazing and wilt was amazing but the fact that teams switched their gameplan for shaq to intentionally foul him all the time shows how great he was. Hard topic.

And iverson, as much talent he had, he was way one dimensional. He could score and he had some good vision and passing game but he was selfish and even then his passing game was nothing and I am sorry, you cannot be considered a point guard if you are not a pass first guy.

And carter isn't in the middle. All he ever had was just physical talent. He had an okay shot. But other than that, all he had was athleticism.

And you are out of your fucking mind to think Jennings/Rose are going to be better than Paul. From a logical stand point, Paul is the prototype point guard. He is good at passing/scoring/shooting/defense.

This post has been edited by sir_lance_bb on Mon - Apr 19 2010 - 22:35:34

or Chauncy for that matter

hodges > korver
any day

you know we are talking about shaquille o'neal right...

do you remember him on the magic? early lakers teams? before he got fat in la and was just a brick house he was lean. him in orlando was fucking impressive.

rew dont forget about rose and roy

that's not even the same player and i will point out what happened in the 95 finals when he had to play against a superior center?The magic got swept and he got outplayed.Best center ever?Sorry not even close.

i listed rose, and i'm unsure about roy. roy is a consummate professional and he's better than people who don't know much about him will realize. i'm not sure if i'd stick him in my lists above, but he's definitely a strong player with potential.



will respond to a lot of this, mostly to explain my views, rather than to argue. my lists aren't final, complete or anything more than my opinions.

korver is listed BECAUSE that's all he brings. barry and horry were better players but not better shooters; horry was very clutch. if i had to choose any of those guys to be on my team, i'd choose barry during the regular season and i'd choose horry for the playoffs. but i still think korver is the better shooter, which puts him in a kind of all-time category. that is, korver may turn out to be the greatest shooter of all-time.

i don't think of iverson in terms of being such a great point guard (he was a great player, but not the best or anything...more of a mini 2 guard), but in terms of raw talent. he was an exceptional defender, and he was able to create shots like few others can emulate. he had really great handles, lightning-quick reflexes, etc. this brings me to why carter made my list. even without really trying, he's been an all-star and he has pretty impressive career stats. he's in the mix out of sheer ability. not because of his winning personality. if i had carter's abilities, i'm pretty sure i'd be trying to outpace guys like jordan in terms of greatness, rather than fagging around saying i won't dunk anymore for my team because i want to join richard jefferson on a team that ultimately won't do much better than my own team.

paul is a great guard but i don't think he's a (uniquely) special guard outside of his fundamentals and his INSANE work ethic. rose and jennings both bring something unique to the table. few prototype guards are going to adorn my all-time lists. the other factor is time. rose, jennings and paul are all pretty young, but i think paul has sucked out more of his potential in terms of development than jennings or rose. paul has a great shot and he can drive, but i don't think of him as a scorer in the same way as jennings and rose. rose is already a more effective (i'm not saying better) defender than paul. jennings will always have paul's problem of being a little guy. but jennings is faster and (much, much) more creative than paul.

because of the existence of nash, paul doesn't shine in a way he might in terms of raw fundamentals. he's a better defender than nash. i think he compares better with deron williams, except williams is more powerful and doesn't shoot as well. i added some flexibility in the list to suggest that paul may get bumped up, and jennings may get bumped down. i'm not sure about rose, but for now i have him in the lower list. so if anything, i have paul as > rose, but not on points of potential. right now, if i had to choose between having paul and jennings on my team, it would depend on who else is on the team.

i'm a HUGE fan of jennings because i think he has abilities that nobody else has right now in the NBA. he's by far not the best player, but he's one of the most fun players to watch. if there was a streetball 1-on-1 tournament of NBA guards, i don't see how he could possibly finish less than 5th. he'd destroy nash, for example. i donno,

rondo
williams
BRYANT
...

not many guys could stand in front of jennings in that setting and not get treated like little school girls. the NBA isn't one-on-game game but then again jenning sisn't just someone who can play 1-on-1. he's an incredible shooter. he ends up OK on the stats sheets only because he takes really difficult shots. but his shooting is way underrated, and as a young player it's not easy to be that good at shooting. he has the best quick pull-up jumper in the NBA (kobe has the best pull up jump shot in the NBA ofc). he has fast hands, he sees the court really well, and his assist stats aren't HUGE because he doesn't have any serious help. i won't go on, and it's not like curry isn't one HELL of a great rookie. i think curry should be made rookie of the year, not tyreke evans or brandon jennings. curry could go on any of the lists i made on points of potential but also on grounds of solid play so far.

shaq was in diapers and he was outplayed but he still put up good numbers. he wasn't at his best until he got to the lakers. not even close. but physically he was in top shape.

a second year shaq (2/3 year?) against hakeem is not quite a fair comparison.

i find it hilarious that you are trying to make intelligent conversations about a sport based on monkey business

What and having conversations about a sport where 40% of them take steroids is any more intelligent?

let me reiterate



richardson was on fucking fire tonight

This post has been edited by lobb on Fri - Apr 23 2010 - 00:13:57

and nash had so many beautiful passes that hit the mark every goddamn time, whether he was looking or passing through traffic or not

beastin'

and hill and robinson were champs in game 2

shame i won't see game 4 but im p sure the suns will continue to dominate

we have no point, it sucks

IMO, thunder and lakers series is one of the more entertaining ive watched in years

its awsm that we have gotten you guys in foul trouble within basically the first five minutes every game

really opens it up for nash and hill to lay it on when they're fresh and gives plenty of time to rest

ohh shit, we got a point guard
watch out

i didnt get to see the game but i heard roy played and that the suns lost

it was just not your day. he came back 8 days after surgery to a packed house that exploded for him
gl hf cya in phoenix

LBJ is good.

at?

thunder, lakers again tonight
this is good tv

gl hf enjoy the phoenix crowd roy

gl hf game 6 let's end it suns

you won't have to play dallas and we can beat duncan this year

plzplzplzplz

what we need is our little #1 draft pick to not be hurt and play like a boss

it is unless kobe starts to feel better, then it might get bad for OKRAhoma
gz to the thunder so far, they've played really well. i'd like to see them go on further tbh. they need to stop bynum.

the suns are really good but i think amare is basically alone on the inside. if hill had never gone through mass injuries earlier in his career, they would be a different team. he would've had a kobe-like impact on a season. he's probably the #1 most screwed guy due to injury, above even shaq, antonio mcdyess (or w/e it's spelled) and mmmrrraybe oden. most people would've quit a long, long time ago in grant's shoes. the guy is unbelievable.

i heart grant hill

You know your cool when you name sounds like a fucking park or something.

i don't even know how to criticize his game. basically every opponent in the NBA should pray to the gods of foot injuries because that's the only thing that ever prevented him from being one of the best players of all-time. i'd choose him over some more effective players just to have him around as an example of determination and love for the game (nvm that he's still almost an all-star [imo]). i wouldn't take him over kobe or wade or lebron OFC but hill leads by example and it's hard to replace quiet determination.

He would of had 40 triple doubles every season if healthy.

he got 10 in his 2nd season (leading the league i might add) so i think 20 or 30 wouldn't be unreasonable at all for a season. now he only has 29 in 13 years after his injuries. whereas lebron has 18 in 5 years. some people said a year or two ago that lebron would eventually average a triple double for a season...

i think hill probably could have been 1st or 2nd all-time in triple doubles, but 40 per season would be a dunno. lebrah still has potential, too, but i don't know if he will catch jason kidd (co rookie of the year with grant hill i might add!).

I love watch Nash operate like he should without that big schmuck shaq clogging everything up. <3 Steve

With the increased amount of supporting around Lebron which I expect Cleveland to try to maintain, he won't put up huge numbers. Because he won't have to. But his assists are going to go up through the roof.

The one thing about Lebron is that he is the most balanced player since Magic or Oscar. That is one thing he will have over Jordan and Kobe.

yes

game 3 he was a maestro, i don't think he had one failed pass. game 4 i did not see and game 5 he was still operating incredibly, i think he did end up throwing a couple away though

his sense of where everyone is on the court and what he needs to do to move the ball around is amazing

sadface
bulls and blazers are both on their way out (bulls first)
at least i can get to watching baseball faster this way

Yea there was one easy one he missed in the first half but otherwise was on target. The bench played incredibly well two.

Rose and Noah need some help on that team to do anything.
Portland just needs to have everyone healthy for once