Adam Dunn: 333 Career Home Runs
2 leading off, 7 walk-off, 37 tying, 111 go ahead

So nearly 50% (47%)of his homeruns were not "useless" and actually important to the particular game

For comparison
Hank Aaron: 755 Career Home Runs
0 leading off, 9 walk-off, 78 tying, 259 go ahead
Only 45% of his homeruns had a large significance to the game for his entire career

or

Ken Griffey: 630 Career Home Runs
0 leading off, 5 walk-off, 64 tying, 218 go ahead
Again only 45%

So your "useless" homerun argument seems to be baseless and invalid

ill never understand your love of dunn. a single tool player whose only praise is homeruns. who cares. thats such a small aspect of the total game.
dave kingman was a stud too bro..

What the hell have I done.

I mention that I thought Dunn had a little bit of talent early in his career and everybody goes apeshit.

I haven't seen your source, so for now I'll just say you're right.


HOWEVER, that doesn't refute everything else I've stated about him. Which means he's still the modern day Rob Deer, only he is probably worse in the field.

He's fucking garbage. I'm glad he's not on my team anymore, and your obsession with such a terrible player can only mean you hope to one day swallow his load.

Seriously, what is up with your love affair for a guy who strikes out 160 times each and every year while struggling to drive in 100 runs a year?

This post has been edited by sardoniclysane on Sun - Jul 4 2010 - 08:59:05

because some dude wrote a book about how small ball is terrible and dave kingman is the new hero

I like the long ball....sure. However what is the use of it if you don't drive in runs on top of it?

106 RBI's is his career hi? 208 total runs generated is his best? A player rating that only once has been considered an all-star, and several years has been rated as not even a competent starter?

I'll take a guy who hits 25 home runs and drives in 110 while scoring over a 100+ runs and can field over a guy who hits 40 hrs, barely drives in 100, and most of the time doesn't score 100, and is a nightmare in the field any day of the week.

id take 9 david ecksteins and roll over a team of dunns

except for that one game where all the dunns hit solo hrs

BEING A DH IS IMPORTANT

Priceless.

Aren't DH's supposed to drive in runs?

yeah

i dont understand why you get to round 47% to "nearly 50%" but not 45% for both aaron and griffey

it was showing that it is about half way not drastically in the other direction as was indicated for the argument then to show that hall of famers have similar averages

will respond to the rest of the comments later

Dave Kingman: 442 Career Home Runs
0 leading off, 8 walk-off, 46 tying, 130 go ahead

My point was that sards assertion that Dunn only hit home runs when it didnt matter was incorrect

Btw here is the difference between Dunn and Kingman.

Career OBP
Kingman: .302
Dunn: .382

Huge difference, Dunn has plate discipline and contact issues. Kingman was just a hacker with power, so the comps are very poor.

you and i have had this conversation at least 2 other times, so im just trollin

No obsession but he is not garbage plain and simple. Whether or not you would want him on your team does not take away his production.

Solo Home Runs != production.
Striking out != production.
Half assing it in the field != production.
Making errors in the field when you finally try != production.

900+ Career Ops=Production
Adjusted OPS+ of 132 (22nd among active players)=Production

Defensively he is a 1B/DH, nobody is arguing that but quit saying solo home runs when much of that is team dependent. He can't help the fact that nobody ahead of him got on base. Would you rather him hit a single and get 0 runs? No that would be ludicrous.

dunn is the king of fancy stats
david eckstein > imo

Why is OPS or or OPS+ fancy? Because it accounts for everything you do with the bat? Meaning it counts for hits, walks, and how many bases you get on the hits you do get. Just looking at Avg or # of HRs is short sided and does not give the whole picture.

Also that may be your opinion but the stats in no way favor you in your assessment.

Career Numbers
Dunn
OBP:.382
RAR: 250
WAR: 25.7

Eckstein
OBP:.356
RAR: 214
WAR: 21.5

Both have been in the league 10 years. The object of the game is to score runs and getting on base is integral in that. RAR is runs above replacement, so how many more runs a particular player is worth than the league average player at a given position. More runs=more wins. WAR is wins above replacement which factors in fielding. Both the RAR and WAR are cumulative stats so a solid to very good year is maybe 2.5-4 WAR and 5-6+ WAR for a given year is MVP consideration.

I don't know why everyone freaked out on me and Scott.

All I said was is that some of the young guys such as Dunn/Kearns were good talent prospects and that they had some pretty talented teams that never put anything together.

We never said Dunn was a player who could lead an offense. I mean that is obviously known considering Cincinnati traded him because they needed more weapons.

Dunn would fit well in an already established offense. Like the Yankees or the Red Sox.

No. 5 is considered "All Star" and that's going by the site itself.

Dunns has been below 2 (minimum to be considered a starter) 4 out of the last 6 years.

Actually only 2 years because they split for when he was traded during one season to arizona

Now that he is not mucking around in LF and at 1B his numbers will look better

the fact we find fancy stats and others ways to look at players today just proves that we are creating reasons to like guys like dunn

Dunn scores runs, runs=wins, wins=profit

i lol'd

i read an article (pre WSH days) about how dunn was more valuable than gwynn Sr., and that dunn should go to the hall and I've been preaching it ever since

youve got to be shitting me

next you will tell me mcgwire was a better hitter than ted williams because he had a higher proportion of hrs/hits in some new intriguing stat

Dunn doesn't score, nor really drive in runs.

He's not a top producer. 102 runs is his high. 106 rbi is his high. These are very pedestrian career highs.

As for his WAR, sorry I was wrong, but it's still 3 out of the last five years he's been under a 2.0 (starter benchmark).

(2006, 2008, 2009) and he's only at a 2.2 WAR for this year, hardly all-star material.

You do realize "The Onion" is satire, right?

these all or nothing playing like dunn dont help you win more games, but help you win a game by more
there is no statistical way to track how well a player moves runners and generally plays knowledgeable baseball

A .382 OBP is not all or nothing, that is getting on base so you can score runs.

he strikes out 150 times a year. thats doing nothing 1/5 of your plate appearances.

a strikeout isnt a double play at least

success by failure?
interesting

Which is 20% of the time, aka not all or nothing as you were implying. Just because he has a fault does not make him valuable, no player is perfect.

a guy who hits .240 and strikes out 150+ a year is not a quality player imo

And the beloved WAR stat that Bubbachunk wants to harp on agrees with you, he's just ignoring that point.

i will give him one thing though. hes a fucking enigma. how do you strike out 150+ a year and still draw 100+ walks? so you can tell whats a strike and a ball but you are swinging so fucking hard you just miss all the time?

he makes no sense.

He has hit plenty of balls over 500ft.

so did dave kingman. means nothing. part of the trouble is we accept and honor players who do one thing. hence me saying hes an enigma. no one should have the mix of numbers dunn has.

Well yeah.

My favorite players ever is Ken Griffey Jr. and Ted Williams. Mainly because they were the perfect baseball prototypes.

40+ HR 100 RBI and 100 Runs is production

You look at the SOs but you are not looking at the BBs. He has a good SO/BB ratio, so it is a mere contact issue not pitch selection which is much more problematic.

You misread the stats as he has only had 2 sub 1 WAR years and now that he is playing 1B, a much better position for him, the numbers should not drop until he is near retirement.

i already said that

This post has been edited by blind_chief on Wed - Jul 7 2010 - 19:18:14

the gist is i dont accept a dude who strikes out 150+ times and hits under .250 as anything above average. 50 years ago he would not have stayed in the league, or would be a platoon guy.

and you keep talking about production numbers. because hes not getting very many hits his production comes in bunches. its not a steady stream. so that only leads to less frequent but more decisive leads. your fancy stat does not equal wins.