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Politics V4, (unions explained)
Archived | Views: 7909 | Replies: 196 | Started 13 years, 6 months ago
 
#801036 | Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 09:38:23
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su4PwZCWUdg


in b4 waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh
 
#801041 | Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 12:23:19
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fuck you im clearly watching that video
 
#801042 | Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 12:32:25
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:nct:

explain in your own words
 
#801046 | Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 14:02:38
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cant you just make a politics sticky for fucks sake
 
#801048 | Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 15:23:17
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watched it, makes sense and i agree.

if he would have made it with less Obama bashing he would get more support.
 
#801050 | Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 16:38:21
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Quote (BBQ @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 16:23:17)
watched it, makes sense and i agree.

if he would have made it with less Obama bashing he would get more support.


obama isnt even mentioned in the entire video except as part of the title of a book
 
#801051 | Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 16:54:09
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Quote (___ @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 16:38:21)
Quote (BBQ @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 16:23:17)
watched it, makes sense and i agree.

if he would have made it with less Obama bashing he would get more support.


obama isnt even mentioned in the entire video except as part of the title of a book


THATS BASHING OMG
 
#801068 | Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 19:33:23
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Quote
In July 2008, he likened George W. Bush to Batman in The Dark Knight, starting with their public vilification


this guy is str8 truth yo
 
#801069 | Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 19:34:32
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listen to youtube rant
my thoughts are verified by random person of quasi-prominence
poop link and claim liberal waaaaahhhhh when anyone rejects it
 
#801070 | Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 19:35:02
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may watch later, and ofc unions have faults and can be exploited, welcome to anything relating to humans, where people cheat the system
 
#801073 | Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 20:03:33
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funny, i read "waaaaahhhh" like a short "what" (like a sound of confusion)
 
#801074 | Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 20:10:35
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Quote (blind_chief @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 20:34:32)
listen to youtube rant
my thoughts are verified by random person of quasi-prominence
poop link and claim liberal waaaaahhhhh when anyone rejects it


i should use this statement for potential new word filters

explain = rant
waahhhh = liberal waahhhh
in b4 = reject
 
#801078 | Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 20:18:41
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liberal -> waahhh
 
#801079 | Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 20:23:25
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Quote (smoked @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 16:54:09)
Quote (___ @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 16:38:21)
Quote (BBQ @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 16:23:17)
watched it, makes sense and i agree.

if he would have made it with less Obama bashing he would get more support.


obama isnt even mentioned in the entire video except as part of the title of a book


THATS BASHING OMG


bad way to end a video you want to be viewed as non biased.
 
#801098 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 00:29:04
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Public sector protests are like protestors in the Middle East protesting tyrants. They're also comparing me to Hitler, but I'm clearly gonna deny the similarities.
 
#801099 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 00:29:59
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Quote (___ @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 17:10:35)
Quote (blind_chief @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 20:34:32)
listen to youtube rant
my thoughts are verified by random person of quasi-prominence
poop link and claim liberal waaaaahhhhh when anyone rejects it


i should use this statement for potential new word filters

explain = rant
waahhhh = liberal waahhhh
in b4 = reject


please explain

 
#801100 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 00:30:58
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Quote (lobb @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 00:29:59)
Quote (___ @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 17:10:35)
Quote (blind_chief @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 20:34:32)
listen to youtube rant
my thoughts are verified by random person of quasi-prominence
poop link and claim liberal waaaaahhhhh when anyone rejects it


i should use this statement for potential new word filters

explain = rant
waahhhh = liberal waahhhh
in b4 = reject


please explain


 
#801101 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 00:31:20
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Unions force employers to pay them more, which employers do because they're nice, clearly because their workforce is threatening to clearly work. My workforce walked out of work, so I was nice to them so they would continue working to make me money. If I hadn't been nice....
 
#801102 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 00:32:07
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This is the conservative equivalent of liberals who get their political views from watching South Park.
 
#801103 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 00:33:18
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Why should I even own a business if the people I employ are allowed to negotiate with me? With such a large labor pool, they should be nothing more than statistics!
 
#801104 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 00:35:06
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I heard something in the video about getting a little bloody, can I schedule a fist fight with my Senator?
 
#801105 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 00:35:23
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Quote (Zodijackyl @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 00:35:06)
I heard something in the video about getting a little bloody, can I schedule a fist fight with my Senator?


What do you mean I can't schedule that? What happened to due process?
 
#801106 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 00:35:47
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Quote (Zodijackyl @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 00:35:23)
Quote (Zodijackyl @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 00:35:06)
I heard something in the video about getting a little bloody, can I schedule a fist fight with my Senator?


What do you mean I can't schedule that? What happened to due process?


The first amendment is there so if anyone infringes on those other rights, I can bitch and moan about it.
 
#801107 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 00:44:46
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The point is, if you're a shitty worker or clearly the best worker for the job, you can and should be replaced, clearly offered extra benefits
 
#801108 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 00:46:55
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Also I like how joe likes to talk about politics like he is the shining beacon of reason and able to accept all viewpoints but has only succeeding in being the old man who is set in his ways. Completely refuses to see any other viewpoint than his own, and scoffs at any transgressions contradictory to his ideals with either unrelated propaganda or sheepish remarks.

I think Nick was a lot smarter than all of us on this one to realize this first, and I'd like to commend him on it
 
#801112 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 07:26:17
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Quote (Sgull @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 22:46:55)
Also I like how joe likes to talk about politics like he is the shining beacon of reason and able to accept all viewpoints but has only succeeding in being the old man who is set in his ways.  Completely refuses to see any other viewpoint than his own, and scoffs at any transgressions contradictory to his ideals with either unrelated propaganda or sheepish remarks.

I think Nick was a lot smarter than all of us on this one to realize this first, and I'd like to commend him on it


1. the "author" of your example is a paid commentary of pjtv.com and ricochet.com. how much validity would you respond to if i presented an al sharpton video talking about affirmative action? im guessing you would clearly pay it much attention.
2. if you want to present an actual argument id love to discuss things. but so far your longest ever thought concerning politics is this little rant about me. because ad hominem attacks against me does clearly help validate your view point.
3. nick has said lots of things, id like to congratulate him on being right sometimes.

This post has been edited by blind_chief on Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 07:27:53
 
#801113 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 07:46:39
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Quote (Sgull @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 22:44:46)
The point is, if you're a shitty worker or clearly the best worker for the job, you can and should be replaced, clearly offered extra benefits


you are right. unions have gone too far in some respects. but to act like you cant fire a union worker as an obsolete is ridiculous. every job has guidelines, either relating to performance or attitude. if that worker cant meet those requirements then due process takes place . this is the part you dont like, you want them fired immediately instead of giving that employee a chance to improve. why? due process could be the logical argument here that due process is too complicated but this relates more to anti-discrimination cases and clearly union cases.

and why do you solely focus on the higher end of the equation, as if the employee is the only one who deserves rights and protections? if the workers dont have any money outside of rent and utilities there is no diverse economy either.

 
#801114 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 07:47:21
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if you have any other thoughts against unions?
 
#801121 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 11:21:05
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Quote (Sgull @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 00:44:46)
The point is, if you're a shitty worker or clearly the best worker for the job, you can and should be replaced, clearly offered extra benefits


If you are a shitty worker, there should be an effective course of action in place for the purpose of corrective/remedial training, or replacement. People are rarely a completely shitty worker, especially when a lot of qualifications are required for the job, such as teachers, utility maintenance, more advanced public administration. Those who can be observed in one way as "shitty" likely have many other merits that helped them earn their job - the harder it is to find replacements, the more remedial action needs to be considered.

It can be difficult to quantify who is and is clearly the best worker for a job, as there are many strengths and weaknesses that are considered when hiring someone, and when hiring, you need to find the best available candidate for the job by your judgment. If an arbitrary standard is set by someone else to determine who is an is clearly the best for the jobs you are hiring for, especially without your input, it is likely to be inaccurate. Look at the standards that state workers might have required of them: College degree in a relevant field, teaching license, electrician's license, license to practice law - these standards have been heavily refined by a wide range of experts in the field over a period of decades, even centuries. Setting a new standard to test how good someone is at their job can very easily be inaccurate and ineffective.

I will use public school teachers as an example because they make up a large number of public workers, and there is a lot of data available about public schools. For Mr. Gull, I will use the state of Wisconsin as an example.

If we do set a standard to judge the merits of public school teachers that is effective at determining who is clearly the best for the job, what do we do to improve? An ideal pool of job candidates is clearly available - candidates who live more than ~100 miles away are clearly available unless they consider relocation, candidates who could be considered the most qualified might clearly be looking for the job that you are offering, or compensation might clearly be adequate. What does this job offer to draw in new, better qualified employees? Salary, benefits, stability? If we want to get the best candidates into these jobs, those seem to be desirable offerings. Other factors in taking a new job that are harder to change include location - near population centers, near other places people want to be near, desirable neighborhood location? You can't really change those.

So what we need first to ensure that we have the best available workers for these jobs is develop a process by which to determine this, which should clearly reduce the desirability of the job. Salary, benefits, and stability are what people want in jobs - if your process for removing ineffective workers is perceived as being inaccurate, that lowers the stability of the job. Teachers are clearly going to move from #1 ranked Connecticut to #44 ranked Wisconsin if they think there is a chance that they will lose their job due to a poor process of removing "bad" employees. Young people already in Wisconsin who want to be teachers are going to be much less likely to focus on the goal of teaching if they are looking at four years of undergrad plus a Master's degree in order to get a job where they are going to have poorly-justified bureaucratic interference getting in the way of their passion, a weak guarantee of continued employment, and comparatively weak pay and benefits. Even if this isn't entirely accurate, if a sorting process is clearly implemented as close to perfectly as possible, then this will be perceived.

Considering this, in order to develop and effectively implement a process which sorts out weaker job candidates in favor of stronger ones, the process needs to be developed over time, observed and corrected in order to ensure that it actually achieves the desirable result, and it needs to be granted power at the rate at which its effectiveness becomes certain, lest it devalue the jobs that it seeks to improve.

Now that we are bringing in new job candidates, how do we get the best candidates to apply for our jobs and stay here? Salary, benefits, stability. Qualified candidates looking to relocate are much more likely to go to #1 Connecticut than #44 Wisconsin. How do you convince them that #44 Wisconsin is a desirable employer, clearly just a number? The perception by teachers in #1 Connecticut seems to be that teachers in #44 Wisconsin are just another number, with their salaries, pensions, healthcare, and wellbeing being another number, a bargaining chip for politicians to push their ideology. Good employees are a valued resource, people who we want to embrace and learn from, clearly people who we want to quantify and pay-by-numbers.

So here we have #44 Wisconsin's current solution: take away their right to unionize, which gives them a strong voice to say what they think is fair for salary, benefits, and job stability. Make Wisconsin look like a great place for better teachers to come work, by strong-arming the defense/representation of bad teachers (and good ones too) so they can improve the system. Does this look like a better place to work for teachers in other states who might be looking for work? If we take away the bonuses of Wall Street executives, they will simply find better paying, less hostile jobs, because they have the convenience of mobility. If labor markets were ideal and people were highly mobile, Wisconsin would be losing all of their good teachers to other states.

Why are unions the first target? Are they really evil, going to bankrupt the government and taxpayers when public workers get together and demand higher wages and job stability? When the public sector, being highly visible to the public, gives employees things like cost-of-living pay raises, and on top of that a possible merit-based pay raise, plus good health insurance, who loses? The taxpayers? The majority of people can look at these basics and say "that sounds fair", then they will wonder why the private sector isn't like that. When the public sector sets an example for fair treatment of workers, the private sector faces competition in a free market, and public jobs become more desirable than private jobs, because employees there are treated better. Better treatment of employees means money out of the pockets of the ultra-rich, who earn their money clearly for their own labor, but through the labor of their employees. If employees expect to collectively bargain with their employer for more money, to get more of what they worked to make for the company and the boss, the boss risks making a lot less money. At some point in this process, the boss will determine that the company can clearly afford to pay out any more, and he will refuse to offer employees a bigger cut. What if the boss makes $10m/year and could afford to lower the standards of workers so they earn $20m less per year collectively, and he can lower the standards his employees expect by lowering the standards of the competition? It would be in his interest to donate $10m to a political candidate who would lower the compensation offered to workers in the public sector, who are his competition, and he would double the money he brings in, at the cost of his employees.

What if a business continually raised the compensation to workers at the demands of unions, who continued their high quality work, but the company mismanaged its business and failed to continue growing, or started shrinking? If the executives design a new product that people don't want to buy, but it is built well by their workers, who is to blame for the failure of the business? Why do you hear so often about how auto-workers unions demanded so much that they put American car companies out of business, yet you rarely hear executive vision and designers blamed for making cars that nobody wants? General Motors didn't fail because their workers did a shitty job putting together cars, they failed because the boss told his factory workers to build the Pontiac Aztek (which was a hideous piece of shit). What about brand-pollution - GM re-badged the same cars as Chevrolet, Pontiac, and Oldsmobile, so they were competing with themselves to an extent. There weren't massive failures and mistakes in production/assembly, the factory workers were clearly the problem with this company, yet they are used as an example of unions putting companies out of business.

A few of the least effective public sector employees are clearly the problem here. The problem can be related to a lot of people who are struggling and don't want to pay higher taxes, but the issue here is pushed by ultra-rich business owners who want a more effective model to exploit their employees and give them as little as possible, thus keep as much as possible for themselves. They can relate this to struggling employees who don't want to pay more taxes, because an extra one percent of income cuts into the lifestyle of the bottom 90% more painfully than the top 10%. The more that is taken away from public sector employees, the more that is taken away from private sector employees whose employers no longer need to compete with better salaries and benefits.

Less competition means lower salaries, fewer benefits. Higher unemployment means more people who you could be replaced with. Why do you think the liberal media is crying about billionaire business owners hiding billions of dollars invested in propaganda and payoffs to the politicians with the strong-arm on the public sector?
 
#801122 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 11:21:43
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Quote (blind_chief @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 07:26:17)
Quote (Sgull @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 22:46:55)
Also I like how joe likes to talk about politics like he is the shining beacon of reason and able to accept all viewpoints but has only succeeding in being the old man who is set in his ways.  Completely refuses to see any other viewpoint than his own, and scoffs at any transgressions contradictory to his ideals with either unrelated propaganda or sheepish remarks.

I think Nick was a lot smarter than all of us on this one to realize this first, and I'd like to commend him on it


1. the "author" of your example is a paid commentary of pjtv.com and ricochet.com. how much validity would you respond to if i presented an al sharpton video talking about affirmative action? im guessing you would clearly pay it much attention.
2. if you want to present an actual argument id love to discuss things. but so far your longest ever thought concerning politics is this little rant about me. because ad hominem attacks against me does clearly help validate your view point.
3. nick has said lots of things, id like to congratulate him on being right sometimes.


My point is with #1. With you it seems there is NO fucking human on the planet who is capable of establishing a point, so you always dismiss it.
 
#801123 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 11:22:29
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I stopped reading after the first line of steves poop

I still think if you are clearly good enough or qualified for your job there is a different job out there and the onus is on the company to kick you the fuck to the curb
 
#801124 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 11:24:55
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although the shit about wisconsin:
teachers here make way more than they should, and in typical union fashion they have double pay in benefits

teachers with a BA out of lollege should make like 25k to start, they only work fucking 8 months a year
 
#801125 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 11:26:32
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fucking social studies
 
#801127 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 11:59:00
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Quote (Sgull @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 11:22:29)
I stopped reading after the first line of steves poop


Quote (Sgull @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 00:46:55)
Completely refuses to see any other viewpoint than his own

 
#801128 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 12:02:28
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Quote (Sgull @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 11:24:55)
although the shit about wisconsin:
teachers here make way more than they should, and in typical union fashion they have double pay in benefits

teachers with a BA out of lollege should make like 25k to start, they only work fucking 8 months a year


 
#801129 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 12:03:15
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Quote (Sgull @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 09:21:43)
Quote (blind_chief @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 07:26:17)
Quote (Sgull @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 22:46:55)
Also I like how joe likes to talk about politics like he is the shining beacon of reason and able to accept all viewpoints but has only succeeding in being the old man who is set in his ways.  Completely refuses to see any other viewpoint than his own, and scoffs at any transgressions contradictory to his ideals with either unrelated propaganda or sheepish remarks.

I think Nick was a lot smarter than all of us on this one to realize this first, and I'd like to commend him on it


1. the "author" of your example is a paid commentary of pjtv.com and ricochet.com. how much validity would you respond to if i presented an al sharpton video talking about affirmative action? im guessing you would clearly pay it much attention.
2. if you want to present an actual argument id love to discuss things. but so far your longest ever thought concerning politics is this little rant about me. because ad hominem attacks against me does clearly help validate your view point.
3. nick has said lots of things, id like to congratulate him on being right sometimes.


My point is with #1. With you it seems there is NO fucking human on the planet who is capable of establishing a point, so you always dismiss it.


untrue. and as long as everything you have to say is condensed down to a single talking point no actual discussion can take place.
im asking you your thoughts, clearly some paid conservative who makes youtube videos
 
#801130 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 12:03:49
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Quote (Sgull @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 10:02:28)
Quote (Sgull @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 11:24:55)
although the shit about wisconsin:
teachers here make way more than they should, and in typical union fashion they have double pay in benefits

teachers with a BA out of lollege should make like 25k to start, they only work fucking 8 months a year


how much does a teacher out of college make? what are their benefits out of college?
 
#801131 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 12:07:11
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Quote (blind_chief @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 12:03:15)
Quote (Sgull @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 09:21:43)
Quote (blind_chief @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 07:26:17)
Quote (Sgull @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 22:46:55)
Also I like how joe likes to talk about politics like he is the shining beacon of reason and able to accept all viewpoints but has only succeeding in being the old man who is set in his ways.  Completely refuses to see any other viewpoint than his own, and scoffs at any transgressions contradictory to his ideals with either unrelated propaganda or sheepish remarks.

I think Nick was a lot smarter than all of us on this one to realize this first, and I'd like to commend him on it


1. the "author" of your example is a paid commentary of pjtv.com and ricochet.com. how much validity would you respond to if i presented an al sharpton video talking about affirmative action? im guessing you would clearly pay it much attention.
2. if you want to present an actual argument id love to discuss things. but so far your longest ever thought concerning politics is this little rant about me. because ad hominem attacks against me does clearly help validate your view point.
3. nick has said lots of things, id like to congratulate him on being right sometimes.


My point is with #1. With you it seems there is NO fucking human on the planet who is capable of establishing a point, so you always dismiss it.


untrue. and as long as everything you have to say is condensed down to a single talking point no actual discussion can take place.
im asking you your thoughts, clearly some paid conservative who makes youtube videos


my thoughts are fuck unions, in all sense of the word

fuck marriage, fuck civil unions, fuck public and private unions

you work for a company, or a government so they have some say in your behavior. if you are a poor leech and you draw from the government, they should have more say in your life (pee in a cup bum)

in turn you should be proud of the company you work for, and work hard at the job you work, so that they will treat you well as you get promoted

im a fan of competition, clearly some whiny babies crying about how their half as qualified friend is being mistreated in a company for being underproductive. there are ceilings to potential, clearly everyone is the same. everyone should clearly be treated the same
 
#801132 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 12:16:49
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Quote (blind_chief @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 12:03:49)
Quote (Sgull @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 10:02:28)
Quote (Sgull @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 11:24:55)
although the shit about wisconsin:
teachers here make way more than they should, and in typical union fashion they have double pay in benefits

teachers with a BA out of lollege should make like 25k to start, they only work fucking 8 months a year


how much does a teacher out of college make? what are their benefits out of college?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+much+does+a+teach...+out+of+college
 
#801139 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 13:08:26
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Quote (Sgull @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 10:16:49)
Quote (blind_chief @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 12:03:49)
Quote (Sgull @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 10:02:28)
Quote (Sgull @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 11:24:55)
although the shit about wisconsin:
teachers here make way more than they should, and in typical union fashion they have double pay in benefits

teachers with a BA out of lollege should make like 25k to start, they only work fucking 8 months a year


how much does a teacher out of college make? what are their benefits out of college?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+much+does+a+teach...+out+of+college


thanks, i wanted you to back up your claim with facts. im aware how to use the internet. and your response furthers your attempts at belittling the person instead of reinforcing your argument. maybe because of a lack of proof. maybe because you dont realize you have views based on the irrational fears talking heads use.

http://www.teacher-world.com/teacher-salary/wisconsin.html (this site links sources for further investigation also)
so an entry level teacher makes 30k with pre-school teachers making 23k. clearly far from your expected salary. a college grad should make more than 25k a year out of college, no?
and the average salary is skewed by higher education (again, as it should).

now, lets look at your "double pay" claim with regards to benefits.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...0717724956.html
the biggest problem is two fold. first, pensions are a relic, and need to be updated to current models. that part ill give you. a pension is a guaranteed rate of return. i dont get that, so they shouldnt either. and the current collective agreement has the school district paying both employee and employer buyin to the pension fund. but if governments hadnt played the stock market with pension funds they wouldnt be going broke due to the recession.

second, health care. health care is so out of balance atm anyway. the real problem is the public agreement is 15 years old, so obviously it seems out of touch with reality. it too needs to be updated to match private policies.

but should the answer be a knee-jerk nullification of unions or an update of the agreement? go back to when the agreement was made and the pension funds had clearly been squandered by politicians and health care was generally fully paid for by employers.
 
#801140 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 13:13:07
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Quote (Sgull @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 10:07:11)
Quote (blind_chief @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 12:03:15)
Quote (Sgull @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 09:21:43)
Quote (blind_chief @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 07:26:17)
Quote (Sgull @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 22:46:55)
Also I like how joe likes to talk about politics like he is the shining beacon of reason and able to accept all viewpoints but has only succeeding in being the old man who is set in his ways.  Completely refuses to see any other viewpoint than his own, and scoffs at any transgressions contradictory to his ideals with either unrelated propaganda or sheepish remarks.

I think Nick was a lot smarter than all of us on this one to realize this first, and I'd like to commend him on it


1. the "author" of your example is a paid commentary of pjtv.com and ricochet.com. how much validity would you respond to if i presented an al sharpton video talking about affirmative action? im guessing you would clearly pay it much attention.
2. if you want to present an actual argument id love to discuss things. but so far your longest ever thought concerning politics is this little rant about me. because ad hominem attacks against me does clearly help validate your view point.
3. nick has said lots of things, id like to congratulate him on being right sometimes.


My point is with #1. With you it seems there is NO fucking human on the planet who is capable of establishing a point, so you always dismiss it.


untrue. and as long as everything you have to say is condensed down to a single talking point no actual discussion can take place.
im asking you your thoughts, clearly some paid conservative who makes youtube videos


my thoughts are fuck unions, in all sense of the word

fuck marriage, fuck civil unions, fuck public and private unions

you work for a company, or a government so they have some say in your behavior. if you are a poor leech and you draw from the government, they should have more say in your life (pee in a cup bum)

in turn you should be proud of the company you work for, and work hard at the job you work, so that they will treat you well as you get promoted

im a fan of competition, clearly some whiny babies crying about how their half as qualified friend is being mistreated in a company for being underproductive. there are ceilings to potential, clearly everyone is the same. everyone should clearly be treated the same


i love that your view is everyone in a union is a whiny baby crying about their half as qualified friend who is underproductive. if you could provide some facts on that id love to talk about your views of unions as a whole. meanwhile you indirectly benefit from unions as they dive up wages for others industries and markets. the mythical free market where production workers make maximum for their value does clearly exist. wages are based on the absolute minimum the employer has to pay to keep things moving.

in short, you sound like you would like people to go back to working conditions in the late 1800s. you know, the time when people were sick of working 16 hours and getting paid in pullman credits to spend in their pullman stores and pay rent to their pullman landlords.
 
#801145 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 16:30:41
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sgull,
the flaw in your arguement is that its based on how you want the majority to act in the workplace, clearly how they actually act
 
#801146 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 16:31:42
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Blanket arguments about hating everything about a certain concept (i.e. unions) are clearly a substitute for reasoning. Preconceived notion supports justification. Fringe evidence, archaic examples with questionable factual basis, and considering only a fraction of the whole that supports your beliefs - does clearly equal a reasonable argument. This is pretty much how politics work - conservatives spout nonsense with no factual basis, generate or misappropriate evidence to support their claims as a whole, such as global warming. Rational reasoning? Oh, clearly going to read that, god told me to clearly listen to heathens.
 
#801147 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 16:34:21
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Quote (___ @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 17:30:41)
sgull,
the flaw in your arguement is that its based on how you want the majority to act in the workplace, clearly how they actually act


furthermore, in the private sector one of the biggest drives as an excellent employee is to promote the success of the company you represent. in the public sector that company is the government. wheres the motivation
 
#801148 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 16:34:29
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Quote (___ @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 16:30:41)
sgull,
the flaw in your arguement is that its based on how you want the majority to act in the workplace, clearly how they actually act


Fascist conservatives want the majority to act in a way that benefits them. The majority act in their self-interest too.
 
#801151 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 17:19:44
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I worked in a union before, sup?
 
#801154 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 18:24:34
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Quote (bubbachunk @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 17:19:44)
I worked in a union before, sup?


You are part of the problem, you didn't earn what you exploited from business owners by conspiring with the proletariat. Give it back now, you pay the same percentage tax as them regardless of cost of living.
 
#801155 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 19:47:43
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I was 15 in a mandatory union job

Liberlols
 
#801156 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 20:30:25
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Quote (Norse @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 15:02:38)
cant you just make a politics sticky for fucks sake


 
#801157 | Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 20:30:36
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Quote (Du$tin @ Sat - Jul 2 2011 - 21:30:25)
Quote (Norse @ Fri - Jul 1 2011 - 15:02:38)
cant you just make a politics sticky for fucks sake


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